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Old 01-12-2012, 09:31 PM   #71
Fortean
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Default A Soldier's Story

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Originally Posted by NikeeGoddess View Post
A Soldiers Story was one of the best WWII movies that i've seen and it only made $22 million too many blacks or what?
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"[Norman] Jewison and many of the cast members worked for scale or less under a tight budget with Columbia Pictures. 'No one really wanted to make this movie... a black story, it was based on World War II, and those themes were not popular at the box office', according to Jewison. Warner Bros. turned it down, as did Universal's president, Ned Tanen, and UA and MGM followed suit. Columbia's Frank Price read the screenplay and was deeply interested, but the studio was hesitant about its commercial value, so Jewison offered to do the film for a $5 million budget and no salary. When the Directors Guild of America insisted he must have a fee, he agreed to take the lowest possible amount." ~ "A Soldier's Story", Wikipedia
Norman Jewison is a Canadian filmmaker.

What socially significant film was George Lucas producing in 1984?
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Old 01-12-2012, 10:20 PM   #72
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Default Re: Red Tails

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Originally Posted by BDZ
No one ever says PTA's movies don't play overseas because they are white.
There Will Be Blood grossed 40 here and 35 overseas.

But beyond that, people aren't funding PTA movies. Very few directors mean anything in and of themselves. Woody Allen has to get huge stars to get his financing.

PTA's last three movies got funded because they were a Daniel Day-Lewis movie, an Adam Sandler movie, and a Tom Cruise movie.

ETA: Magnolia made more overseas than here. PDL was a bomb everywhere.
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:00 PM   #73
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Default Re: Red Tails

That's no real business overseas. You can't go to many financiers' and say "give us 35 million and we'll make you a movie that does 25 mill here and 25 mill overseas." (Stomp the yard made 14 million overseas and it doesn't even have Tom Cruise.) And the specificity of PTA isn't the point, nor is his funding. I'm saying that no one blames his movies lack of overseas appeal (with big stars) on race.

Again, double standard is this: white movies don't travel because of content, black movies don't travel because of race...except Bad Boys (when Will was most definitely NOT an international star).

I'm saying that Will, Denzel, Eddie Murphy (in the right movie) are proof that race is not a major hurdle. African Americans are preeminent in global pop culture. I'm saying content is the primary factor, over race.
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:17 PM   #74
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Default Re: Red Tails

You're acting like there's no data that these foreign sales agents are drawing their conclusions from. All the movies with black leads that come out (and there are too few, but they exist) also get released overseas. And if they're not released in theaters, they're released on DVD. And played on TV.

And those sale agents find out what stars draw people in.

And then they fund movies based on that data.

I'm not saying there's no racism in the world or Hollywood. I'm just talking about the reality of financial model right now.
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:33 PM   #75
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Default Re: Red Tails

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You're acting like there's no data that these foreign sales agents are drawing their conclusions from. All the movies with black leads that come out (and there are too few, but they exist) also get released overseas. And if they're not released in theaters, they're released on DVD. And played on TV.

And those sale agents find out what stars draw people in.

And then they fund movies based on that data.

I'm not saying there's no racism in the world or Hollywood. I'm just talking about the reality of financial model right now.
Foreign sales agents/financiers get stuff wrong all the time. It's all gambling. Plenty of white movies have no overseas value. No one wants to see the white version of a Tyler Perry movie overseas either. Race shouldn't be assumed as a dominant factor. And dismissing the black films that do well as "exceptions" creates an insurmountable connundrum (sp?)

"Black movies don't travel"
"The right ones do."
"Those don't count"
"?"

If someone says, "well the Nutty Professor features Eddie Murphy (who is NOT a slam dunk overseas), playing a black family, with a black girlfriend crushed overseas", the response will be, "that's an exception within an exception" (because Eddie Murphy is black, and he's not a gauranteed hit overseas like Will).

It's worse in TV. The Cosby show was a hit overseas. The response, "well that's the only one." Is it? The foreign market just decided to let one black show in?

Or is it a simple numbers game: you have to make many many attempts to find shows that are hits overseas, and if you make one (network) black show every 10 years, it has to has bat a thousand to win whereas the white shows get as many attempts as it takes to find a hit.
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:41 PM   #76
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Default Re: Red Tails

Yes, race is just one of many factors. There's absolutely a prejudice against certain genres, too. And yes, sales agents get it wrong all the time. But the ones who get it wrong too much go out of business, and the ones who get it right more often than not do well.

I'm not even saying race is the dominant factor. I think we're discussing the race of actors primarily in this thread because it's a thread about the race of actors.
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Old 01-13-2012, 12:08 AM   #77
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Default Re: Red Tails

I don't think the issue is that audiences don't want to see movies with black characters. It's just the black actors clearly aren't very good.


Fortunately, performance capture technology is now at the stage where good white actors can be brought in to play these black characters with the skill they deserve. I'm actually kind of surprised that Lucas didn't do this, having been such a pioneer with performance capture.


Hopefully, this enlightened thinking will also put an end to the ridiculous search for a 'female action star'. I don't think anyone will argue that SALT would have been taken a lot more seriously if we'd known it was wasn't Angelina Jolie in the role, but a dude (maybe Vin Diesel) who was digitally altered to look like her. Then, deep down, we could believe 'she' was actually able to kick ass.


I hope this helps.
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Old 01-13-2012, 12:32 AM   #78
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Default Re: Red Tails

Terrence Howard was amazing in Hustle & Flow. Should have won the Oscar that year.
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Old 01-13-2012, 06:51 AM   #79
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Default Re: Red Tails

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Originally Posted by instant_karma View Post
I don't think the issue is that audiences don't want to see movies with black characters. It's just the black actors clearly aren't very good.


Fortunately, performance capture technology is now at the stage where good white actors can be brought in to play these black characters with the skill they deserve. I'm actually kind of surprised that Lucas didn't do this, having been such a pioneer with performance capture.
hmmm! well, robert downey jr was a hit in tropic thunder
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Old 01-13-2012, 07:47 AM   #80
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Default Re: Red Tails

Japan's number one TV commercial actor...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_cCDFqLeTY
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