Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

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  • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

    BTW, if it's the script that I think it is, the attention it is bringing to the writer is truly well-earned.

    So happy for that writer. I look forward to him stealing my writing assignments.

    Comment


    • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

      Originally posted by FranklinLeonard View Post
      For anyone interested, I've recently received word that a writer whose work was essentially unseen outside his circle of immediate friends prior to its exposure on the new Black List site had a meeting at a major agency on Friday wherein he was offered representation. He had a call with another as well and has been contacted by two major management companies and will be meeting with them next week. I actually expect things to get a bit crazier for him next week as I imagine most people will read his script this weekend as part of their weekend read.

      As much as I would love to share specifics about the writer's name and his script, out of respect for his privacy, I will not be doing so. I'm sure some of you will allege that this is all fiction. That won't change my stand on protecting the writer's privacy. I assure you, however, that it is fact, and stake my reputation on it.

      Lastly, to be very clear, the writer deserves the credit for his success. It's the quality of his work that made these people want to meet him and offer him representation. The Black List simply delivered it to those people in a way that made them read it with an urgency and seriousness with which they might not have otherwise.
      Franklin, that's fantastic for the writer. Can you share with us what his rating was, and how his meeting with the agency came about? That is, was his script spotlighted in an email or on the site, how many ratings were visible to the industry pros on the site, was it a production company or rep that saw it first, etc.

      I agree on your other point that it's helpful for writers to think of the ratings less as a valuation of talent/ability than likeliness of recommendation up the food chain. I think many of us come at it from our experience entering contests, and the perceived quality of the script is directly related to how it fares. It can be a big mental shift for us, and hope to see it on the faq so we can manage our expectations.
      Last edited by lordmanji; 10-27-2012, 05:58 PM.

      Comment


      • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

        Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
        T
        And look at you - you asked me to read something, and I agreed. If I would have loved it, I absolutely would have helped you. I've helped other people. Instead (I just went back and looked), here's the first sentence of your reply to my notes: "You may be right with some of your comments."

        Wheeee! Let me rush to help you, and offer to read your next project!
        Jeff, yes I've asked you for your opinion a couple of times, on concept or a treatment or a few pages for different projects, and you were kind enough to take a look, and I thought I always expressed gratitude for your input, but apparently I came across as a douche to you so I apologize! I try to always be polite and grateful to people who give me notes, respond to posts, or whatever, so if I came across as anything less than that, know that it was not in a spirit of confrontation.

        Anyway, the reason I used you as an example in my post is that you seemed to have reservations about this whole enterprise at first, and paying services in general. I agree that in addition to plain old fashioned querying there are things such as contests and networking to make some headway as a writer.

        Personally, I don't know how I feel about such services yet. It seems like more and more reps and production companies are outsourcing the reading / triage process.

        Which may be fine, I don't know. But the way it's going, it may soon no longer even be possible to send a query and have it read. As I've said, I've used VPF on some occasions, for production companies I really wanted to reach but couldn't via query. Now, there are many reps who you used to be able to cold query who only accept queries via VPF. At this rate, it's going to be very costly very soon for writers to query people. Hopefully that won't happen for some time yet, but I can't help thinking that queries will more and more be getting this reply: "contact us via VPF for 10 bucks" or "submit your script to BL for 75 bucks and we will be happy to take a look should it garner an initial favorable read."

        Comment


        • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

          Originally posted by FranklinLeonard View Post
          I think that there are some gross misunderstandings about what our 1-10 scale represents. Think of it less as a scale from illiterate to good and more as an indication of how likely our reader would be to recommend it to someone else in the industry they respected and whose time they wouldn't want to waste.
          So you're saying it's conceivable that a literary masterpiece about a Hindu priest's existential journey throughout Southeast Asia -- that could win a Nicholl Fellowship in a heartbeat -- could possibly get a 1/10, while a much more marketable Transformers type script could receive a 10/10?
          I'm never wrong. Reality is just stubborn.

          Comment


          • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

            Originally posted by FoxHound View Post
            So you're saying it's conceivable that a literary masterpiece about a Hindu priest's existential journey throughout Southeast Asia -- that could win a Nicholl Fellowship in a heartbeat -- could possibly get a 1/10, while a much more marketable Transformers type script could receive a 10/10?
            I can't believe I just read this whole thread! Anyway, very interesting, very informative about the state of the industry, and some of the new ways of attempting to get your scripts read.

            When I read some of the more argumentative posts (both by writers and by managers, agents, those who are looking for scripts) I am reminded of what one of my acting professors used to stress above all else. "What is your motivation?"

            Those looking for scripts (it seems to me) are trying to find the most economical (in terms of time/energy spent) way of finding the kind of scripts they are looking for. Writers are trying to be discovered. There is a bit of conflict in any scene with these two kinds of characters in them, by definition.

            Anyway, is great news that a writer has been discovered! And, I do share the concern of some on this board at the wide disparity between how their writing and scripts have been evaluated outside of BL 3.0, and on it.

            I'm still on the fence about ordering another paid read. May not. Was a fun experiment for me, however. And thanks to Mr. Leonard for the opportunity to attempt to get my script in front of some major players. I do believe your site will create some needed short cuts for some talented writers.

            Comment


            • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

              Originally posted by FoxHound View Post
              So you're saying it's conceivable that a literary masterpiece about a Hindu priest's existential journey throughout Southeast Asia -- that could win a Nicholl Fellowship in a heartbeat -- could possibly get a 1/10, while a much more marketable Transformers type script could receive a 10/10?
              In my almost a decade in the film industry, I've found that people are far more likely to share a well written script regardless of its seeming lack of commerciality than something that's more marketable. Thus the Black List and its success.

              Moreover, our readers are explicitly told to give their overall rating based on their likelihood of recommending the script based on the quality of writing than they are based on the commerciality of its premise.

              Comment


              • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                Originally posted by michaelb View Post

                Great scripts will find their way. Derek Haas said something in Austin which I will probably be saying for years. Great scripts glow in the dark. They shine in a sea of bad writing and bad ideas. Very few will have those glowing scripts, but when they are read, they glow bright, and Hollywood can find them. It may not happen overnight, but they find their way. And again, Hollywood can't wait to find them.
                The problem is lousy scripts find their way too.

                Your point would be stronger if this wasn't the case. Lousy scripts find their way through production and to the multiplex screen.

                The multiplex isn't this amazing treasure trove of great writing. Are you insinuating is it?

                There is no correlation, absolutely none between quality and box office. "Taken 2" got trashed on Rotten Tomatoes and made a killing opening weekend at the box office, coming in at number one.

                Great scripts don't always find their way. You think a "Remains of the Day" would find its way to a multiplex today?

                Your industry bases reads on loglines. And shuts out that one good apple writer because of the many many rotten ones. It's the loglines that are expected to glow, not the scripts.

                The scripts are rarely even being solicited.

                You say Hollywood can't wait to find them? Try cold calling a production company or talent agency with a script.

                "We do not accept unsolicited scripts".

                But what if it might be great?

                "We do not accept unsolicited scripts".

                Can I tell you the logline then?

                "We do not accept unsolicited scripts."

                This is not the stuff of science fiction. They really don't accept unsolicited scripts. Of course how can they know of a scripts existence unless they hire psychics? References from other known to them of course.

                And who are these people known to them? Other people who will not read your script.

                It would be nice to believe your industry actively finds the best talent out there, but that's not founded in any reality ( kudos to Franklin for this experiment ). It actively searches for properties that can make money, preferably opening weekend, and that means catering to the brain dead teen demographic first, because week in and week out they can be relied on to fund your careers.

                Those people who you're referring to, who might enjoy great scripts? They're watching "Breaking Bad" at home. They're not going to the movie theatre with any regularity.

                Great scripts will find a way...as long as they're marketable to a mass audience, just like lousy marketable scripts.

                Or is marketable what you mean by great. If that's the case, carry on...
                Last edited by halloweenjak; 10-27-2012, 09:49 PM.

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                • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                  Originally posted by halloweenjak View Post

                  Or is marketable what you mean by great. If that's the case, carry on...
                  Actually, I think that's exactly what Geoff (a manager) said earlier in the thread --marketable.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                    Originally posted by halloweenjak View Post
                    The problem is lousy scripts find their way too.

                    Your point would be stronger if this wasn't the case. Lousy scripts find their way through production and to the multiplex screen.

                    The multiplex isn't this amazing treasure trove of great writing. Are you insinuating is it?

                    There is no correlation, absolutely none between quality and box office. "Taken 2" got trashed on Rotten Tomatoes and made a killing opening weekend at the box office, coming in at number one.

                    Great scripts don't always find their way. You think a "Remains of the Day" would find its way to a multiplex today?

                    Your industry bases reads on loglines. And shuts out that one good apple writer because of the many many rotten ones. It's the loglines that are expected to glow, not the scripts.

                    The scripts are rarely even being solicited.

                    You say Hollywood can't wait to find them? Try cold calling a production company or talent agency with a script.

                    "We do not accept unsolicited scripts".

                    But what if it might be great?

                    "We do not accept unsolicited scripts".

                    Can I tell you the logline then?

                    "We do not accept unsolicited scripts."

                    This is not the stuff of science fiction. They really don't accept unsolicited scripts. Of course how can they know of a scripts existence unless they hire psychics? References from other known to them of course.

                    And who are these people known to them? Other people who will not read your script.

                    It would be nice to believe your industry actively finds the best talent out there, but that's not founded in any reality ( kudos to Franklin for this experiment ). It actively searches for properties that can make money, preferably opening weekend, and that means catering to the brain dead teen demographic first, because week in and week out they can be relied on to fund your careers.

                    Those people who you're referring to, who might enjoy great scripts? They're watching "Breaking Bad" at home. They're not going to the movie theatre with any regularity.

                    Great scripts will find a way...as long as they're marketable to a mass audience, just like lousy marketable scripts.

                    Or is marketable what you mean by great. If that's the case, carry on...
                    More conspiracies. "You just want shitty scripts, but mine is amazing. No wonder you don't like mine." Or is yours just shitty? Maybe stop placing blame and start accepting it...

                    Comment


                    • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                      New guy here -- I was just wondering if I could direct a question to Franklin re: the recently "discovered" writer.

                      I was just wondering if you could provide any more details regarding his/her experience. I assume (and hope) that it happened basically as the system was set up to do -- said undiscovered writer uploaded a script, ordered paid reviews (I'm curious how many though) and it got the readers excited enough that it got passed along in some form. I'd also be curious what form that promotion took but it's kind of academic I guess -- the point is it got promoted. So was that basically the path it took?

                      Or, and this would be potentially more interesting, did it somehow get highlighted amidst the "anonymous" (for lack of a better word) sea of hosted scripts? And if so, any comment on how that happened?

                      Hopefully those are generic enough details to not compromise the writer's privacy -- hopefully?

                      ps - and thanks for answering these questions here

                      Comment


                      • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                        I suppose it's fitting that during election season, legitimate concerns are being labeled nitpicks and gripes

                        Congrats to the newly discovered writer!

                        Keep in mind that Tarantino caveat someone mentioned, and for that matter, George Lucas. It's not just subjective ala Rotten Tomatoes, but there is a bias against unknown writers.

                        If I were to upload my script (still on the fence), I can predict a score gap. I don't write dumb sh!t for dumbsh!ts. Whoever reads my work has to have a neuron or two in fine working order. I'm guessing the 3 vs. 8 script requires something similar?

                        A year ago, I submitted a short script to a contest and it got polar opposite reviews. It was obvious that the low score came from a reader who wasn't smart enough to understand the plot, nay, the entire premise. I spoke with the festival director, and asked whether there could be a tie breaker score of sorts when such disparities arise. He just defended his people and said he couldn't afford tie breakers. Honestly, that reader was substandard, and if we writers can be booted out for poor writing, they should be booted out for poor reading.

                        I took the advice of the high scorer who raved about the script, and produced the short film myself.

                        It worries me that some of us will have to do the same with our feature scripts. In fact, most of the original/creative films I've seen recently are made by writer/directors.

                        Sorry for the ramble. My main point is along the lines of reader accountability. It's like tenure at universities - if they've proven themselves worthy in the past, they're assumed to be always worthy in the future. I hope this isn't the case at BL3.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                          Originally posted by FranklinLeonard View Post

                          I'm a numbers nerd and was curious about this, and here's what I have to report:

                          The script that received a 3 and an 8 is an outlier, an extreme one. Literally the greatest gap between any two scores on the same script we've yet seen....

                          .... In layman's terms, the average gap between two scores on the same script is 2 points, comfortably within reasonable subjectivity in my view (and based on figment's comments re: a 6 and an 8, his too).
                          Thanks for clearing that up, Franklin. That does make sense now.
                          ---
                          Congrats to the newly discovered writer and Franklin's Blacklist 3 that was able to shine a light on his/her work. That's truly great news. Godspeed!

                          Comment


                          • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                            Originally posted by itsallgood View Post
                            If I were to upload my script (still on the fence), I can predict a score gap. I don't write dumb sh!t for dumbsh!ts. Whoever reads my work has to have a neuron or two in fine working order.

                            A year ago, I submitted a short script to a contest and it got polar opposite reviews. It was obvious that the low score came from a reader who wasn't smart enough to understand the plot, nay, the entire premise. ....
                            I thought this was satire, then I realized you were serious.

                            You probably didn't mean to come off that arrogant -- but that sounds pretty arrogant.

                            Everything is still subjective. Where one reader sees "smart" another reader might see "pretentious," for instance.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                              Yah I didn't, and it did. Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt It is just a bit of frustration given my previous experiences.
                              Originally posted by figment View Post
                              I thought this was satire, then I realized you were serious.

                              You probably didn't mean to come off that arrogant -- but that sounds pretty arrogant.

                              Everything is still subjective. Where one reader sees "smart" another reader might see "pretentious," for instance.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Black List founder Franklin Leonard answers your questions about the Black List

                                Originally posted by figment View Post
                                I thought this was satire, then I realized you were serious.

                                You probably didn't mean to come off that arrogant -- but that sounds pretty arrogant.

                                Everything is still subjective. Where one reader sees "smart" another reader might see "pretentious," for instance.
                                But shouldn't our goals as writers be to write to the level that more people can understand? I don't mean dumb it down, at all, but I mean that it takes a certain level of sophistication to write that complicated story in a way that works - otherwise it may just be working in your head.

                                And to connect it to this thread, I can see why some BL readers are giving low scores - if your story has some cool elements but isn't quite there (only the smart can get it), it should have a low score.
                                www.JustinSloanAuthor.com

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