Thanks for the idea...you're no longer needed

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  • Thanks for the idea...you're no longer needed

    Quick question....I pitched a script to a production company three years ago (also emailed them the screenplay) and the director of development liked the writing and the script, but mentioned they were looking for a different genre at the time. She wanted to know if I would be interested in changing my genre to what they were looking for. I told her that particular genre wasn't my thing, but if there was some genuine interest in the project then I'd be happy to give it a shot. Long story short nothing came of this conversation and last night I noticed the movie they were in development with at the time used the third act of my script and they also modeled the antagonist the same way as the project I pitched to them. I was watching the movie on DVD last night and noticed it's about a good 15 to 20 minutes of what I pitched to them that shows up on screen. The antagonist, the setting and the overall twist....however they're using a different genre and their overall plot is completely different.

    My material was copywritten and I still have the emails were I sent this person my material. Currently the movie is a little over $150 million in box office sales on box office mojo. Based on what I've mentioned above, if it were you, would you consult an attorney or just let it blow in the wind and chalk it up as a loss?
    One must be fearless and tenacious when pursuing their dreams. If you don't, regret will be your reward.

    The Fiction Story Room

  • #2
    Re: Thanks for the idea...you're no longer needed

    Search pro bono lawyers for the arts. See if you can ask one of them about it.
    Hell of a Deal -- Political Film Blog

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    • #3
      Re: Thanks for the idea...you're no longer needed

      This is a tricky situation. Because if the movie is broad enough, it could be a coincidence.

      But at the same time I saw what happened with G.I. Joe and how huge writers were suing Paramount and the producers saying there was clear theft of their ideas. They had documentation that they had presented Paramount and the producers a comprehensive treatment and (allegedly), it was pretty clear that their ideas and set pieces were stolen. You may have a case. especially if you have an email trail.

      Edit* I agree with the poster above you should contact a lawyer.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Thanks for the idea...you're no longer needed

        Originally posted by Juno Styles View Post
        Quick question....I pitched a script to a production company three years ago (also emailed them the screenplay) and the director of development liked the writing and the script, but mentioned they were looking for a different genre at the time. She wanted to know if I would be interested in changing my genre to what they were looking for. I told her that particular genre wasn't my thing, but if there was some genuine interest in the project then I'd be happy to give it a shot. Long story short nothing came of this conversation and last night I noticed the movie they were in development with at the time used the third act of my script and they also modeled the antagonist the same way as the project I pitched to them. I was watching the movie on DVD last night and noticed it's about a good 15 to 20 minutes of what I pitched to them that shows up on screen. The antagonist, the setting and the overall twist....however they're using a different genre and their overall plot is completely different.

        My material was copywritten and I still have the emails were I sent this person my material. Currently the movie is a little over $150 million in box office sales on box office mojo. Based on what I've mentioned above, if it were you, would you consult an attorney or just let it blow in the wind and chalk it up as a loss?
        Yes, if I honestly believed they used my third act of a screenplay I sent them I would absolutely consult an attorney. Your attorney should be able to help you distinguish between the third act being 'similar to' and an outright 'copied my material.'

        And if you can't afford an attorney that requires a retainer, find one that will do it on the condition that you get paid if they is a settlement in your favor. Did you sign a waiver? If so, make sure you present that to your lawyer along with all correspondence to the persons in question. And just because you signed a waiver, don't feel intimidated by that, because that only covers parallel development, not outright stealing.

        There's no harm in seeking legal advice. A lawyer should help you determine if you have a legitimate claim.

        You have to do what you feel is right. Both legally and morally. If you do nothing, will it always bother you? No one is suggesting that you file suit today, only that you consult the person who is best able to determine whether your claim is valid.

        Good luck,
        FA4
        "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

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        • #5
          Re: Thanks for the idea...you're no longer needed

          Cool thanks for the advice all. I didn't sign any waivers by the way.
          One must be fearless and tenacious when pursuing their dreams. If you don't, regret will be your reward.

          The Fiction Story Room

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Thanks for the idea...you're no longer needed

            When "Disturbia" came out, the owners of the copyright for "Rear Window" (that is, the source material for that Hitchcock film) sued for infringement. I find it strange, but the judge found in favor of the defendant.

            Sheldon Abend Revocable Trust v. Spielberg

            And here's a related link: Disturbia & Rear Window, Compare & Contrast

            OP, I certainly ain't saying that you don't have a case. And that was only a trial court decision in NY. And while that case focused on copyright law, there may be other/additional laws involved with your case. But if you read the material at those webpages, they should give you some helpful perspectives on this type of situation.

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            • #7
              Re: Thanks for the idea...you're no longer needed

              Contact an attorney.
              If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base.
              Dave Barry

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              • #8
                Re: Thanks for the idea...you're no longer needed

                If possible find an attorney who can look at the bigger picture. That is, not whether you may have a case but also the effect filing a lawsuit or threatening legal action might have on you, your family and your career. You might be right and win a battle but never know you lost the war.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Thanks for the idea...you're no longer needed

                  Obviously none of us know your script or this particular film .. but we've all seen plenty of these lawsuits.

                  Some thoughts:

                  1. You had a certain style of antagonist. Is there ANY film in the world (apart from your script and their film) that has that style of antagonist ?

                  2. You had a certain flow and solution to the third act of your script. Is there ANY film in the world (apart from your script and their film) that has a similar 3rd act?

                  If you answer 'Yes' to both questions, then you may not have as much of a case as you'd like.

                  Good luck,

                  Mac
                  (PS: Manchester: The Disturbia case was quite interesting.

                  For example, consider this chain:

                  {A} The TV show 'X-Files'
                  {B} The Spec Script for the X-Files: 'Final Destination'
                  {C} The final script for the 'Final Destination' Film.
                  {D} The film ''Final Destination"

                  It is undisputed that {D} was based on {C}. And {C} was based on {B}. And {B} was based on {A}.
                  But despite that obvious and undisputed chain from {A} to {D}, {D} isn't a copyright violation of {A}.

                  Why? Because all the parts that were 'protectable' about the X-Files don't appear in the film 'Final Destination'. Yes, they have a common plot (A paranormal event occurs, and our heroes investigate it .. racing against the clock to stop harm from happening) but the elements that survived the copying process aren't protectable elements.

                  The same thing applies to the Disturbia case. Surprising at first .. but when you think about it, it really does make sense)
                  Last edited by Mac H.; 06-18-2014, 02:29 AM.
                  New blogposts:
                  *Followup - Seeking Investors in all the wrong places
                  *Preselling your film - Learning from the Experts
                  *Getting your indie film onto iTunes
                  *Case Study - Estimating Film profits

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                  • #10
                    Re: Thanks for the idea...you're no longer needed

                    Originally posted by Mac H. View Post
                    1. You had a certain style of antagonist. Is there ANY film in the world (apart from your script and their film) that has that style of antagonist ?

                    2. You had a certain flow and solution to the third act of your script. Is there ANY film in the world (apart from your script and their film) that has a similar 3rd act?
                    1) Moreso the antagonist's background and the way he was setup as well as introduced.

                    2) I'm not sure, I'd have to see every film in the world to answer that, but then I would think that would be their job to prove they got the idea from some other film in the event there is a lawsuit accusing them.

                    I get what you are saying, I guess using that logic though every lawsuit where a person or company has actually stolen an idea and tweaked it should never lose nor have to settle because they could use that argument.

                    If I hadn't have had several weeks of conversations and sent them all my material exactly while they were in the development phase then I would agree with what you're saying. That has been my train of thought everytime I've seen a similar idea be produced. But this one just rubs me the wrong way.

                    I have a couple of lawyers checking out my case. I'll report back when I hear something if anyone is interested. If they say something along the lines of "Yea you prob got ripped off, but it's going to be an uphill battle to prove it" or "This isn't enough to go on" then I won't lose any sleep. The struggle will continue.
                    One must be fearless and tenacious when pursuing their dreams. If you don't, regret will be your reward.

                    The Fiction Story Room

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Thanks for the idea...you're no longer needed

                      Originally posted by Mac H. View Post
                      (PS: Manchester: The Disturbia case was quite interesting.

                      For example, consider this chain:

                      {A} The TV show 'X-Files'
                      {B} The Spec Script for the X-Files: 'Final Destination'
                      {C} The final script for the 'Final Destination' Film.
                      {D} The film ''Final Destination"

                      It is undisputed that {D} was based on {C}. And {C} was based on {B}. And {B} was based on {A}.
                      But despite that obvious and undisputed chain from {A} to {D}, {D} isn't a copyright violation of {A}.

                      Why? Because all the parts that were 'protectable' about the X-Files don't appear in the film 'Final Destination'. Yes, they have a common plot (A paranormal event occurs, and our heroes investigate it .. racing against the clock to stop harm from happening) but the elements that survived the copying process aren't protectable elements.

                      The same thing applies to the Disturbia case. Surprising at first .. but when you think about it, it really does make sense)
                      Well, maybe I'd agree with the verdict, but some of the so-called differences the judge finds in the two plots seem to me to be no more substantial than "one had red hair, one had blond hair".

                      Also, from that case, I am really puzzled as to why so many reality TV shows feel the need to get licenses. If you took the POV/reasoning of the judge in the Disturbia case and applied it to the details of "Big Brother" or "Survivor", it'd be easy to not-infringe - and so, skip paying a license fee.

                      But you want to read some really troubling copyright (and related) decisions, read the ones about websites that "embed" material from other websites.

                      If some guy in Whateverstan puts every Hollywood movie ever on his server in Whateverstan, and then I create a website on a server in Chicago that embeds those movies from that guy's server in Whateverstan - it seems the studios have no recourse against me.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Thanks for the idea...you're no longer needed

                        I'd have to see every film in the world to answer that ...
                        No - you wouldn't have to see every film in the world (unless it is unique) .. just until you find another one that matches the description. Or close enough for a 3rd party to see them as similar enough.

                        ... but then I would think that would be their job to prove they got the idea from some other film in the event there is a lawsuit accusing them.
                        Whose job is it to prove what can be different according to which court the case is heard ... but in general if you want to accuse someone else of wrongdoing, then it is up to you to demonstrate that they did it.

                        Remember too, that under the US system, if you didn't register the work BEFORE infringement then you might be limited to getting ACTUAL damages. So if you had a guaranteed deal set up for $100k which fell through - you'd get it. If not? Then what is the calculation of 'actual damages' ?

                        Again - I'm not arguing that the US system of registration and damages makes sense or is fair .. but if you are in the US it's the system you'll be using..

                        I get what you are saying, I guess using that logic though every lawsuit where a person or company has actually stolen an idea and tweaked it should never lose nor have to settle because they could use that argument.
                        Not quite. Remember, copyright law doesn't protect 'ideas'. It protects certain protectable elements of your work. I'm just arguing that the 'idea' that they are accused of taking might not be a protectable element.

                        Good luck,

                        Mac
                        Last edited by Mac H.; 06-18-2014, 03:25 PM.
                        New blogposts:
                        *Followup - Seeking Investors in all the wrong places
                        *Preselling your film - Learning from the Experts
                        *Getting your indie film onto iTunes
                        *Case Study - Estimating Film profits

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                        • #13
                          Re: Thanks for the idea...you're no longer needed

                          Originally posted by Manchester View Post
                          Also, from that case, I am really puzzled as to why so many reality TV shows feel the need to get licenses. If you took the POV/reasoning of the judge in the Disturbia case and applied it to the details of "Big Brother" or "Survivor", it'd be easy to not-infringe - and so, skip paying a license fee.
                          Sometimes the license fees are about massive webs of contracts rather than copyright law .. especially when the one of the parties created both. (The X-Factor .v. Idol agreements seem to follow this pattern. There are agreements over which elements they can use without infringing on each other. Which is one of the reasons why 'Idol' has an age limit !)

                          Sometimes, however, it is simply best to be part of something bigger. Other times it is all about trademark and 'passing off'.

                          I've been to a few seminars and courses that cover licensing TV formats ... and everytime I think I understand it there's another example that doesn't seem to fit the mold !

                          Mac
                          New blogposts:
                          *Followup - Seeking Investors in all the wrong places
                          *Preselling your film - Learning from the Experts
                          *Getting your indie film onto iTunes
                          *Case Study - Estimating Film profits

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                          • #14
                            Re: Thanks for the idea...you're no longer needed

                            Originally posted by Mac H. View Post
                            No - you wouldn't have to see every film in the world (unless it is unique) .. just until you find another one that matches the description. Or close enough for a 3rd party to see them as similar enough.

                            Whose job is it to prove what can be different according to which court the case is heard ... but in general if you want to accuse someone else of wrongdoing, then it is up to you to demonstrate that they did it.
                            I think we're saying the same thing here. I interpreted what you said above moreso as I would need to prove that my script (or moreso what they used) was completely and 100% unique from any other film in the world.

                            Originally posted by Mac H. View Post
                            Remember too, that under the US system, if you didn't register the work BEFORE infringement then you might be limited to getting ACTUAL damages. So if you had a guaranteed deal set up for $100k which fell through - you'd get it. If not? Then what is the calculation of 'actual damages' ?
                            Everything was copywritten before I sent it to them by email.


                            Originally posted by Mac H. View Post
                            Remember, copyright law doesn't protect 'ideas'. It protects certain protectable elements of your work. I'm just arguing that the 'idea' that they are accused of taking might not be a protectable element.

                            Good luck,
                            I'm with you on that and thanks.
                            One must be fearless and tenacious when pursuing their dreams. If you don't, regret will be your reward.

                            The Fiction Story Room

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Thanks for the idea...you're no longer needed

                              Originally posted by Juno Styles View Post
                              I think we're saying the same thing here. I interpreted what you said above moreso as I would need to prove that my script (or moreso what they used) was completely and 100% unique from any other film in the world.
                              I think the idea is that if the similar material is clearly unique, you have an easier case to make that your material was transferred into that other film. If the similar material is ubiquitous in other media besides your script and their film, it's harder to make the case that it must have been transferred directly from your script to the other, rather than their film being independently developed based on familiar ideas.

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