Just received my eval from the Black List...

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  • #16
    Re: Just received my eval from the Black List...

    Originally posted by AE35-Unit View Post
    No reader bashing! All I'm saying is that BL is tuned to judge scripts on their saleability. Nicholl is tuned to judge on the writing. Two totally separate tools yet both with intrinsic value.

    And I use every goddam tool in the shed. (wink)
    I don't disagree with your assessment, but it presents an interesting conundrum. The mantra: "good writing sells". The reality: "saleability isn't actually all that linked to good writing".

    I think this accesses the second level of career, in which the writer not only pens a decent story, but the story that the studios think they want at the time.

    So if you've got a remake right now, start pushing it, especially in TV.

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    • #17
      Re: Just received my eval from the Black List...

      I've been told I should write for TV but to be perfectly candid I don't enjoy it as much as writing features therefore I suck at it. I've also been told I should novelize one of my scripts; but, personally, I'd rather drink Drano than slug through a novel. Instead of "good writing sells" I tend think of it as "good writing rises to the top", and right now I just want to be on somebody's radar, it just takes a long time. But that's okay too because with each one I write I'm getting better at it and right now getting good is my goal instead of selling one (not that I wouldn't mind it if one did).

      The reality is there's a lot of professional A-list writers out there and they can't sell either, so I figure I'm at least in good company even though I'm not a pro-- Yet.
      Last edited by AE35-Unit; 10-17-2015, 08:11 AM.
      We gain our innocence by taking yours.

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      • #18
        Re: Just received my eval from the Black List...

        Everyone has different experiences with the Black List, but I would like to throw my hat into the conversation because I did have what I felt was a good experience.

        First, I have found that the reviews, several over the course of it, have been extremely helpful. Especially when I got past the initial disappointment of scores of 6s and 7s.

        Second, these are high level notes. The big issues with the story as a whole. Some specs will need a lot more work than just what is included in the weaknesses, that's why more reviews from other qualified writers/readers can be helpful as well.

        Third, when you know that you can execute a revision that will improve your screenplay, as a writer, you do it. Being honest with oneself is an important aspect of self-evaluation.

        Four, have you checked out the curves? The majority of the professional scripts that are on the site (The Black List) show that the average among professionals is around 8s and 9s, so, in my opinion you've got to get your script in shape to get a consensus of 8s and 9s.

        Fifth, yes, reviewing is subjective. A nine to one reviewer is a 7 to another, accept it, because there's nothing you can do about it. This is exactly why it's important to strive for those 8s, 9s, and 10s.

        Every script that I read on The Black List over the years are all of the highest quality, and the way it's designed is that they get multiple people who have read the script who agree that it is 8s and above. Clearly if someone has nine people who have voted for that specific script as one of their favorites, there are possibly many others who did not chose to list that same script as their favorite.

        It's possible that the high scoring scripts went out "wide" or just as possible that 80% of the people that read it, felt a top script deserved to be at the top of The Black List.

        I'm grateful for the Black List, because I received an amazing review with 8s and 9s. And yes, I did a quick rewrite based on the notes from that review before I sent out queries. The query with the Black List scores got people to read the review and request the script. It is directly responsible for two managers responding within days to represent me. I mean, it's really an amazing review of my script.

        And since landing my manager, who I absolutely love working with, I have rewritten this spec in a very short time and can I just tell you, it's SOOO much better. I know it's worthy to be sent out. I know it's good.

        To offer an example, it went into a studio, the TV executive read it, had his entire staff read it, then he had a meeting to discuss it with their staff. And this is a 124 page sci-fi Feature Spec and TV people read the entire thing. And even though they passed, I was so happy that it was so close. I'm grateful that they all read it.

        They loved the writing, my voice, and want to see more. So I'm working on the 'more,' now, while we work on reducing the feature to a pilot. It's kind of unique in that it could be a feature trilogy or a series.

        So I guess my position is that your goal is to rewrite your spec until it gets more reviews that score 8s and 9s than 6s and 7s. Because even with 8s and 9s there will still be room for improvement.

        Has anyone sold a spec that didn't have additional rewrites? Of course not. I know that if it or any of my specs sell, it will be rewritten again. The goal should be to write the best possible spec, and if your gut tells you that it could be better, then IMO, you should make it better.

        The numbers are telling you 'where' you land against that reviewers experience as a professional reader, and how likely someone is to recommend your spec. It seems to me that a lot of writers are getting hung up trying to link the reviews to the scores and they are not a direct relationship. The reviewer is giving you the best and the weakest points-- which includes where the work might need to be done. It's not saying that the rest of the script is flawless.

        Whereas the scores are telling you how likely you might be to get a recommend-- not a consider, not a consider with reservations, not a consider the writer, but an actual recommend to push this spec, at this point, up the ladder. That's what I understand the 'score' to indicate.

        As writers we have to achieve a consensus about the quality of our work, not just one great review. And not just one lower than expected score. Accept that some will love it, some will hate it, and one (with the consensus of their team) is all you need to buy it. So, with that in mind, it's about getting enough people to all agree that your spec IS worthy.

        Jeez, sorry, kinda went off way too long--
        FA4
        Last edited by finalact4; 10-17-2015, 07:25 AM.
        "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

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        • #19
          Re: Just received my eval from the Black List...

          Damn. FA4 be sling-blading some words today. I agree with everything you wrote. I don't hold any animosity towards BL at all, they're good at what they do, otherwise I wouldn't continue to use them in order to guage marketability. And good luck to you on your journey. Sounds like you're doing great.
          Last edited by AE35-Unit; 10-17-2015, 10:34 AM.
          We gain our innocence by taking yours.

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          • #20
            Re: Just received my eval from the Black List...

            Posted by Franklin Leonard:

            "On the bright side, finishing in the top 50 of the Nicholl (congrats on that by the way, no small feat) should put you in excellent position to be discovered by agents, managers, producers, financiers, etc. regardless of your experience on the site (which I imagine included a free month of hosting based on your Nicholl placement as well as additional free evaluations because of your 8 overall.)"

            Let's hope so, Franklin. And yes, the free evals and hosting certainly won't hurt. (sotto) I'll slip you an extra C-note if you'll put in a good word for me at Management 360 (wink). Seriously though, I have no problem with BL nor its readers. It's just real damn difficult out there, but you already know that. Thanks for helping us out, and thanks for the kind words.
            Last edited by AE35-Unit; 10-17-2015, 10:36 AM.
            We gain our innocence by taking yours.

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            • #21
              Re: Just received my eval from the Black List...

              ^ Methinks you've missed your calling in politics

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              • #22
                Re: Just received my eval from the Black List...

                Naw man. It's just that I'm sick of every single mention of BL turning into a goddam free-for-all-reader-bashing-session and that's not what I intended. If you're a smart screenwriter, you realize pretty quickly that you NEED those readers to be bluntly honest with you and if you're REALLY smart you'll pay attention to them instead of getting all pissy about it. I'm just as guilty as anyone on here who says 'the reader didn't get it' because I used to say that too when I got a shitty score. When in reality those BL readers know one hell of a lot more about the marketplace than I do because I live in effing Georgia and don't get out much. Unless I'm attending a hog slaughtering. (blinks) Forget I said that.
                Last edited by AE35-Unit; 10-17-2015, 11:03 AM.
                We gain our innocence by taking yours.

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                • #23
                  Re: Just received my eval from the Black List...

                  Timely - I literally just watched Bear Grylls slaughter a hog

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                  • #24
                    Re: Just received my eval from the Black List...

                    I saw one once when I was ten. Never again.
                    We gain our innocence by taking yours.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Just received my eval from the Black List...

                      I do think their is some merit to not charging you for hosting until you receive your first eval. Or at least as an option, having your script start its hosting once the evaluation comes in.

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