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Old 03-21-2011, 12:55 AM   #111
ihavebiglips
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Default Re: This is really depressing (but not unexpected)....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamboogul View Post
I'm dying...


My cheeks hurt from LOLing and smiling really hard.
Same here... God damn this place is ridiculous some times.


Umo... just.... stop.
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Old 03-21-2011, 01:10 AM   #112
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Default Re: This is really depressing (but not unexpected)....

Okay, I'll back off. Don't want more heads to explode or sensibilities to be scarred for life.

I'll just leave you with standard publishing clauses so you can see where I'm coming from.

Or not.

According to several sources, including the Independent Book Publishers Association in Californa, the author “typically” receives:

80% from the First Serialization Rights (newspaper, magazine or other periodical publication prior to book publication); translation rights; and foreign language publishing rights

80% from Second Serialization Rights (newspaper, magazine or other periodical publication after book publication); syndication rights; photocopying and other reprographics rights, anthology, abridgement or excerpt rights

75-80% to translate a book into various foreign languages (Foreign Language Rights)

50% from any license to a book club (Book Club Rights)

50% for the publisher to develop an audiobook or to license to an audiobook publisher (Audio Rights)

50% for the publisher to license electronic book rights (Electronic Rights). According to IBPA the industry norm is that the publisher is entitled to create its own electronic version of the book (e.g., an e-book) and to license others the right to do so, but that interactive multimedia rights, which could be used to produce a CD-ROM, for example, are often reserved by the author

50-70% on the right to make non-book products such as posters, toys, games and other merchandise (Commercial / Merchandising Rights)

50% of the proceeds of any license granted to another publisher to bring out a reprint or other edition of the work such as hardcover version, anthology, large-print version, etc.

90% of any proceeds from a television or movie, live theatre or other theatrical production, DVD, etc. (Performance Rights)
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Old 03-21-2011, 01:31 AM   #113
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Default Re: This is really depressing (but not unexpected)....

Then there's this:

Median advance for a first-time novelist: $5000.

Yes, it's a few years old and only touches on one genre (SFF), and it doesn't include future royalties if the novel earns out its advance. But still.
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Old 03-21-2011, 02:22 AM   #114
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Default Re: This is really depressing (but not unexpected)....

Does it mention the merchandising that has been created based solely on a novel? I can't remember if the Harry Potter merchandise precluded the first movie. Anybody?

There might be a reason that novelists get a higher percentage. Want to take a guess as to what might be that reason? HINT: How many posters, games, and toys do you have based on Dean Koontz's novels?
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Old 03-21-2011, 08:20 AM   #115
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Default Re: This is really depressing (but not unexpected)....

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Originally Posted by Ravenlocks View Post
Then there's this:

Median advance for a first-time novelist: $5000.

Yes, it's a few years old and only touches on one genre (SFF), and it doesn't include future royalties if the novel earns out its advance. But still.
It's probably even less now; around $2k. And the writer has to do a helluva lotta work to earn out that advance since publishers have cut back on marketing for even mid-list writers. A first time novelist? You'd be lucky to get a flyer out to the brick and mortar stores.

And my advice to Umo would be to cut out the middle-man, i.e. the guy making movies. Publish the screenplay through a literary publisher, and she can receive all the "benefits" she cited from her last post.

HH
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Old 03-21-2011, 08:44 AM   #116
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Default Re: This is really depressing (but not unexpected)....

It appears Deborah Gregory got screwed by selling her rights as a novelist. I don't believe it could have have happened this way if she'd been selling an original script under the MBA.

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/feb...t/et-cheetah13


http://www.kbsez.com/2010/07/07/holl...-girls-author/


Looks like she finally got a good deal, that is a deal covered by Guild contract:

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?se...ews&id=6998907


Quote:
The CATWALK series has officially been optioned by The N (which will be renamed TeenNick in the fall) for development. Girls across the U.S. will fall in love once again with Gregory's dynamic and diverse urban characters who represent survival.



Gregory will also serve as the television series' executive producer and co-write the pilot episode with TV veteran scribe Jacob Epstein ("Shark" and "Without A Trace"). Susie Norris-Epstein also serves as the series Executive Producer. Norris-Epstein was Vice President, Series Television for the Disney Channel, where she was responsible for developing the smash hit, Lizzie McGuire, which launched the career of teen star, Hillary Duff, and discovered The Cheetah Girls book series before its initial publication in 1999, snagging the dramatic rights in the process.



Gregory's Catwalk deal with The N was brokered by Lauren Heller Whitney of the William Morris Endeavor Entertainment and attorney, Lisa Davis, a senior partner at Kurnit, Klein, Selz law firm in New York City.

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Old 03-21-2011, 08:53 AM   #117
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Default Re: This is really depressing (but not unexpected)....

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Originally Posted by odocoileus View Post
It appears Deborah Gregory got screwed by selling her rights as a novelist. I don't believe it could have have happened this way if she'd been selling an original script under the MBA.
Yes, this is the bottom line.

Novelists have no minimums they can sell their rights for. So if they don't have leverage, they can get incredibly screwed.

Screenwriters have meaningful rights guaranteed no matter their leverage.

But if a screenwriter is desperate to hold onto copyright, the answer is simple: don't sell it. Shoot the movie yourself. You own the copyright on the script AND the movie.
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Old 03-21-2011, 12:02 PM   #118
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Default Re: This is really depressing (but not unexpected)....

Quote:
Originally Posted by umo View Post
Okay, I'll back off. Don't want more heads to explode or sensibilities to be scarred for life.

I'll just leave you with standard publishing clauses so you can see where I'm coming from.

Or not.

According to several sources, including the Independent Book Publishers Association in Californa, the author “typically” receives:

80% from the First Serialization Rights (newspaper, magazine or other periodical publication prior to book publication); translation rights; and foreign language publishing rights

80% from Second Serialization Rights (newspaper, magazine or other periodical publication after book publication); syndication rights; photocopying and other reprographics rights, anthology, abridgement or excerpt rights

75-80% to translate a book into various foreign languages (Foreign Language Rights)

50% from any license to a book club (Book Club Rights)

50% for the publisher to develop an audiobook or to license to an audiobook publisher (Audio Rights)

50% for the publisher to license electronic book rights (Electronic Rights). According to IBPA the industry norm is that the publisher is entitled to create its own electronic version of the book (e.g., an e-book) and to license others the right to do so, but that interactive multimedia rights, which could be used to produce a CD-ROM, for example, are often reserved by the author

50-70% on the right to make non-book products such as posters, toys, games and other merchandise (Commercial / Merchandising Rights)

50% of the proceeds of any license granted to another publisher to bring out a reprint or other edition of the work such as hardcover version, anthology, large-print version, etc.

90% of any proceeds from a television or movie, live theatre or other theatrical production, DVD, etc. (Performance Rights)
Once again, a little research would be your friend. A novelist gets 50-70% on the sale of the rights for merchandise--not 50-70% of gross on those sales. Do you understand the difference? If my publishing house contacts Mattel in the above example, they may cut a deal where they get 2.5% of gross. I get 50-70% of that number, which is 1.25-2%. Worse than the clause that you keep citing as an example of how screenwriters are getting hosed.
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Old 03-21-2011, 05:21 PM   #119
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Default Re: This is really depressing (but not unexpected)....

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Originally Posted by boredatwork View Post
As for the general argument that without screenplays posted online how do newbie writers learn to write: This is gonna be harsh but you do it the way it was done before the internet. You get an internship or job in Hollywood or go to film school. Sorry.
Actually, that's not the way it was done. You bought illegal copies on paper from Book City or someplace. That's what I did, that's what Kasdan and Schrader and all of those out of towners did. Before the internet, it was all about reading *paper* copies of scripts bought from one of several stores that advertized in writing magazines.

I think there are two issues involved here: Copyright and Scripts To Study. If studios want to control thier property, that's cool - it's their property. But they need to make that material legally available when they do that. If they don't, they haven't solved the root of their problem, and it will continue.

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Old 03-21-2011, 05:42 PM   #120
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Default Re: This is really depressing (but not unexpected)....

Copyright stuff: The only one I have direct knowledge of is Germany - because a German screewriter retains copyright, they *can* sell the rights to make the script again and again (depending on contract). The film rights are "leased" for a specific period of time, and (at least in Germany) the "lease" is usually only for films in a specific language (German) so the screenwriter can sell the same screenplay to a dozen producers at the same time... provided each is a different language. Not uncommon for a hit German film to have "brothers" in other countries... and maybe even sell to the USA.

I have a friend who sells scripts to German producers because they don't transfer copyright and he is free to continue selling the same screenplay.

This may be true for all of Europe, I don't know. Those French probably have the same thing. The USA is the only country (that I know of) where copyright can be sold - everywhere else it is something owned by a person (the creator). That creator has all kinds of rights we don't have. The USA has weird copyright laws that don't match the rest of the world.

- Bill (about a decade ago the guy who wrote the DIE HARD novel called me drunk and swore at me for a half hour)
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