Made the Black List "Top List" - how can I use that?

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Re: Made the Black List "Top List" - how can I use that?

    Cokeyskunk - Every Christmas the BBC broadcasts something Christmassy that's both new and traditional, eg: a new take on a Dickens or Agatha Christie story with an ensemble star cast in hour-long episodes over three or five nights.

    Perhaps IMDB could help you to find the production companies that have made such adaptations for the BBC over the years? Searching for screenwriter Sarah Phelps may help to get you started.
    Know this: I'm a lazy amateur, so trust not a word what I write.
    "The ugly can be beautiful. The pretty, never." ~ Oscar Wilde

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Made the Black List "Top List" - how can I use that?

      Originally posted by Crayon View Post
      Cokeyskunk - Every Christmas the BBC broadcasts something Christmassy that's both new and traditional, eg: a new take on a Dickens or Agatha Christie story with an ensemble star cast in hour-long episodes over three or five nights.

      Perhaps IMDB could help you to find the production companies that have made such adaptations for the BBC over the years? Searching for screenwriter Sarah Phelps may help to get you started.
      Thanks, Crayon!

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Made the Black List "Top List" - how can I use that?

        Originally posted by Cokeyskunk View Post
        Do you have a certain formula or technique you use to identify the producers you reach out to? I think this is likely my biggest weakness.

        Doing the math, this person just paid over a grand to get an average of 6.7. I have an average of 6.5 and paid $150. Are they really in a much better boat than I? Should I just keep buying evals until I hit that golden 8?

        I wish I had a real inside tip (or even something more encouraging to say), but the reality is, this is a long, long game, and the opportunities are shrinking -- Fox is gone, and MGM will probably follow soon (Apple's market cap is up a TRILLION dollars this year, they might just go ahead and buy everyone).

        It takes a while to get your writing to a level that's professional (not just good or Nichol quarter-finals good).

        It takes a while to realize that ALL anyone cares about -- at first -- is your logline.-- Something sticky, in the zeitgeist, but not the tail end of a trend, high concept, "why didn't I think of that", same-but-different -- and preferably cheap to make, because no one's risking money on an unknown.

        The good news is, once you get an executive to read your work, even if they pass, if they like it they will usually leave you an open door to submissions in the future. Those future submissions do not require the billion dollar log line. But you have to get in the door first.

        Knowing who to query takes work. I write bigger movies so I tend to target production companies who've made similar films. Thunder Road, Broken Road, Bad Robot, etc. You have to do a little little legwork to know who to query (ie. at Amblin, not Steven Spielberg)... VP of development is a good start.

        For smaller films, independent producers and actor/director's with small prod co's are great I think.

        Listen to podcasts like Todd Garner's. Read interviews with writers who've recently broken in. Subscribe to Done Deal!

        NEW TOPIC -- I have a script on the Blacklist website that's doing okay, so I re-activated the hosting on one of my old scripts that did really well a few years ago (22 ratings*, 7.1 average) thinking I could re-ignite that fire with people clicking on the 'Other scripts by same author' tab.... NOPE. No one cares... Oh well. Lesson learned.

        *you should never assume anyone with a lot of BL ratings paid for more than a few of them.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Made the Black List "Top List" - how can I use that?

          Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post
          I wish I had a real inside tip (or even something more encouraging to say), but the reality is, this is a long, long game, and the opportunities are shrinking -- Fox is gone, and MGM will probably follow soon (Apple's market cap is up a TRILLION dollars this year, they might just go ahead and buy everyone).

          It takes a while to get your writing to a level that's professional (not just good or Nichol quarter-finals good).

          It takes a while to realize that ALL anyone cares about -- at first -- is your logline.-- Something sticky, in the zeitgeist, but not the tail end of a trend, high concept, "why didn't I think of that", same-but-different -- and preferably cheap to make, because no one's risking money on an unknown.

          The good news is, once you get an executive to read your work, even if they pass, if they like it they will usually leave you an open door to submissions in the future. Those future submissions do not require the billion dollar log line. But you have to get in the door first.

          Knowing who to query takes work. I write bigger movies so I tend to target production companies who've made similar films. Thunder Road, Broken Road, Bad Robot, etc. You have to do a little little legwork to know who to query (ie. at Amblin, not Steven Spielberg)... VP of development is a good start.

          For smaller films, independent producers and actor/director's with small prod co's are great I think.

          Listen to podcasts like Todd Garner's. Read interviews with writers who've recently broken in. Subscribe to Done Deal!

          NEW TOPIC -- I have a script on the Blacklist website that's doing okay, so I re-activated the hosting on one of my old scripts that did really well a few years ago (22 ratings*, 7.1 average) thinking I could re-ignite that fire with people clicking on the 'Other scripts by same author' tab.... NOPE. No one cares... Oh well. Lesson learned.

          *you should never assume anyone with a lot of BL ratings paid for more than a few of them.
          Agree with some of this, namely that opportunities are shrinking in film (TV is the exact opposite) and getting your scripts to a higher level.

          What I don't agree with is spending time going after a VP at a production company. I would argue that it's much better to spend your time going after a manager, who then can get your script read by dozens of VPs when he/she sends it out. It seems to me such a futile effort to go through this arduous process of chasing down execs. Of course, I'm sure some here will chime in with how they've succeeded in getting a few to read off a query. That's great, and glad to hear it. However, in my opinion the writer is not in the best position when doing this. You don't have a relationship with the exec, and you don't have someone in your corner advocating for your interests (like making sure you don't get into some sort of free development hell on one of their ideas).

          I don't have any grand advice on getting a manager. It's a different path for everyone (mine was referral). All you can do is keep grinding on your scripts until you have one that starts lighting people's hair on fire. That's the one which will get you repped and on your way.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Made the Black List "Top List" - how can I use that?

            Originally posted by docgonzo View Post
            What I don't agree with is spending time going after a VP at a production company. I would argue that it's much better to spend your time going after a manager, who then can get your script read by dozens of VPs when he/she sends it out. It seems to me such a futile effort to go through this arduous process of chasing down execs. Of course, I'm sure some here will chime in with how they've succeeded in getting a few to read off a query. That's great, and glad to hear it. However, in my opinion the writer is not in the best position when doing this. You don't have a relationship with the exec, and you don't have someone in your corner advocating for your interests (like making sure you don't get into some sort of free development hell on one of their ideas).

            I don't have any grand advice on getting a manager. It's a different path for everyone (mine was referral). All you can do is keep grinding on your scripts until you have one that starts lighting people's hair on fire. That's the one which will get you repped and on your way.

            As you said, it's a different path for everyone.

            5 years ago, I was desperate to get a manager or agent. Now I would be very selective on even considering one if they reached out to me.

            To me, reps are just a different kind of free development hell -- coming up with log lines and treatments so that a rep can tell me which one I should work on (instead of the one I'm passionate about), developing pitches for assignments that I'll never get, etc.

            But I would say to Cokeyskunk -- if that's what you're aiming for -- being a working writer of mostly other people's ideas (nothing wrong with that- look at Mazin and August), then get yourself at least 2 really good scripts and start querying managers.

            But they have to be perfect. Better than you probably think they are. I have blown my shot with more reps than I could tell you about because when they asked "what else have you got?", and they always do, I sent something that was 3/4 baked.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Made the Black List "Top List" - how can I use that?

              Originally posted by docgonzo View Post
              Agree with some of this, namely that opportunities are shrinking in film (TV is the exact opposite) and getting your scripts to a higher level.

              What I don't agree with is spending time going after a VP at a production company. I would argue that it's much better to spend your time going after a manager, who then can get your script read by dozens of VPs when he/she sends it out. It seems to me such a futile effort to go through this arduous process of chasing down execs. Of course, I'm sure some here will chime in with how they've succeeded in getting a few to read off a query. That's great, and glad to hear it. However, in my opinion the writer is not in the best position when doing this. You don't have a relationship with the exec, and you don't have someone in your corner advocating for your interests (like making sure you don't get into some sort of free development hell on one of their ideas).

              I don't have any grand advice on getting a manager. It's a different path for everyone (mine was referral). All you can do is keep grinding on your scripts until you have one that starts lighting people's hair on fire. That's the one which will get you repped and on your way.
              To your point, I'm having an extraordinarily hard time even getting any kind of response from a manager or any potential rep. I have queried a few that I never heard back from, and then I read a few weeks or months later in an interview -- them saying, "I never read queries. I delete them before I even open them. I only take referrals."

              So, would my time be spent better networking?

              Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post
              As you said, it's a different path for everyone.

              5 years ago, I was desperate to get a manager or agent. Now I would be very selective on even considering one if they reached out to me.

              To me, reps are just a different kind of free development hell -- coming up with log lines and treatments so that a rep can tell me which one I should work on (instead of the one I'm passionate about), developing pitches for assignments that I'll never get, etc.

              But I would say to Cokeyskunk -- if that's what you're aiming for -- being a working writer of mostly other people's ideas (nothing wrong with that- look at Mazin and August), then get yourself at least 2 really good scripts and start querying managers.

              But they have to be perfect. Better than you probably think they are. I have blown my shot with more reps than I could tell you about because when they asked "what else have you got?", and they always do, I sent something that was 3/4 baked.
              Ironically, while I do have several scripts that are completely original, I do have one other I've written for another IP, and it's probably the best work I've ever done. I didn't realize managers would be interested in somebody with two pre-existing IP samples.

              If that's the case, I guess now all I have to really do is figure out who to target and then brush up my query letter.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Made the Black List "Top List" - how can I use that?

                A not insignificant percentage of managers will read and respond to queries. It needs to be really good for them to request, usually.

                And as an aside, and not necessarily as direct comment on this situation - I see a lot of people online asking "how do I contact X?- as it pertains to managers or prodco personnel. It's 2020. If you can't use a combo of IMDBPro, DDP, Google, LinkedIn to figure out who to query and what there contact info is, I question how bad you (the royal you) want this.

                That said, I'd be judicious and non-creepy in my outreach. Facebook and LinkedIn messaging feels gross to me. Your boundaries may vary.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Made the Black List "Top List" - how can I use that?

                  Originally posted by Satriales View Post
                  And as an aside, and not necessarily as direct comment on this situation - I see a lot of people online asking "how do I contact X?- as it pertains to managers or prodco personnel. It's 2020. If you can't use a combo of IMDBPro, DDP, Google, LinkedIn to figure out who to query and what there contact info is, I question how bad you (the royal you) want this.
                  ...just asking for shared strategies to tighten-up the effectiveness of my searching skills. Apologies if that was interpreted as a declaration of ignorance or indifference.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Made the Black List "Top List" - how can I use that?

                    Originally posted by Cokeyskunk View Post
                    ...just asking for shared strategies to tighten-up the effectiveness of my searching skills. Apologies if that was interpreted as a declaration of ignorance or indifference.
                    Like I said, this was not targeted at anyone in particular.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Made the Black List "Top List" - how can I use that?

                      Originally posted by Cokeyskunk View Post
                      I didn't realize managers would be interested in somebody with two pre-existing IP samples.

                      Just to clarify (on the off chance anyone misinterprets), pre-existing public domain stuff like MARIAN or PRIDE AND PREJUDICE AND ZOMBIES (or your Christmas Carol spec) is totally okay.

                      Writing a Star Wars spec is probably a bad idea.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Made the Black List "Top List" - how can I use that?

                        Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post
                        As you said, it's a different path for everyone.

                        5 years ago, I was desperate to get a manager or agent. Now I would be very selective on even considering one if they reached out to me.

                        To me, reps are just a different kind of free development hell -- coming up with log lines and treatments so that a rep can tell me which one I should work on (instead of the one I'm passionate about), developing pitches for assignments that I'll never get, etc.

                        But I would say to Cokeyskunk -- if that's what you're aiming for -- being a working writer of mostly other people's ideas (nothing wrong with that- look at Mazin and August), then get yourself at least 2 really good scripts and start querying managers.

                        But they have to be perfect. Better than you probably think they are. I have blown my shot with more reps than I could tell you about because when they asked "what else have you got?", and they always do, I sent something that was 3/4 baked.
                        You only get trapped in that manager development hell if you allow it. I know it's difficult to say to no, but with some things you have to. And it takes going through a manager or two until you're finally able to do that. I fell into that trap a couple of times. Eventually, thanks to numerous frustrations, I learned to say **** it and do what I want. I'll go to my manager with an idea that I'm into and ask for notes/thoughts on how to make it better. But I'm not in the game of sending a list of ideas for my manager to pick for me to write. No more of that.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Made the Black List "Top List" - how can I use that?

                          Originally posted by docgonzo View Post
                          You only get trapped in that manager development hell if you allow it. I know it's difficult to say to no, but with some things you have to. And it takes going through a manager or two until you're finally able to do that. I fell into that trap a couple of times. Eventually, thanks to numerous frustrations, I learned to say **** it and do what I want. I'll go to my manager with an idea that I'm into and ask for notes/thoughts on how to make it better. But I'm not in the game of sending a list of ideas for my manager to pick for me to write. No more of that.

                          Right. That's essentially what I meant by my being more selective if I am ever approached by a manager again.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Made the Black List "Top List" - how can I use that?

                            Originally posted by docgonzo View Post
                            You only get trapped in that manager development hell if you allow it. I know it's difficult to say to no, but with some things you have to. And it takes going through a manager or two until you're finally able to do that. I fell into that trap a couple of times. Eventually, thanks to numerous frustrations, I learned to say **** it and do what I want. I'll go to my manager with an idea that I'm into and ask for notes/thoughts on how to make it better. But I'm not in the game of sending a list of ideas for my manager to pick for me to write. No more of that.
                            What do you do if your manager isn't into an idea? Still write it?

                            I know my manager has a similar development process to yours (because he copied it) so I'm curious what would happen if you just went off and wrote it. (And I've heard your manager talk about this specifically on podcasts) but I'm much more interested in the writer POV.

                            I don't think my manager is always right on shooting down certain ideas. And in two cases he's come around on them eventually. But I think he's more right than I am.

                            Just trying to foresee a situation where I'm like "screw it I'm writing this.- It feels to me like that would be a scenario that could lead to the dissolution of the partnership. And for background we've never had so much as a cross word between us. But I think we work because I'm flexible and he's very particular despite being a generally laid back dude.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Made the Black List "Top List" - how can I use that?

                              Originally posted by Satriales View Post
                              What do you do if your manager isn’t into an idea? Still write it?

                              I know my manager has a similar development process to yours (because he copied it) so I’m curious what would happen if you just went off and wrote it. (And I’ve heard your manager talk about this specifically on podcasts) but I’m much more interested in the writer POV.

                              I don’t think my manager is always right on shooting down certain ideas. And in two cases he’s come around on them eventually. But I think he’s more right than I am.

                              Just trying to foresee a situation where I’m like “screw it I’m writing this.” It feels to me like that would be a scenario that could lead to the dissolution of the partnership. And for background we’ve never had so much as a cross word between us. But I think we work because I’m flexible and he’s very particular despite being a generally laid back dude.
                              That's a good question. It depends on his argument against a particular idea. If he feels that it's not an original take or knows that there are seven other scripts floating around about the same thing, and two are packaged with top talent, that will make me take a step back. On the other hand, he's more open and collaborative than most, so he might suggest looking at something from a different angle or offer a suggestion that will spin it in another direction. That happened with a thriller I wrote that's about to go out for packaging with a producer attached. Then again, I have a pilot that I barely consulted him on, but he's into it, so that worked out.

                              What I don't do is send a list of ideas for him to pick. I did that once, and luckily it worked out with him. But I've learned since to 1.) trust my instincts, and 2.) to not send him ideas that aren't fully developed and road tested first. That's the key, imo. Go to your trusted writer friends first and pitch them the idea. That way there shouldn't be much of an argument from your manager unless the market is flooded with similar ideas.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Made the Black List "Top List" - how can I use that?

                                That is good advice and topic - maybe we should start a new thread.

                                Overall, it's funny how we write what we are passionate about by ourselves, send it out, get a rep, then all of a sudden we turn over all the creative decisions to a rep -- and often that has lead (at least in my case) to failure.

                                I think the writer friends I know that have success -- manager their managers or agents -- and sort of sell them on what they are into writing.

                                And if you really love an idea and your rep doesn't -- you can always write it on your own then decide if you want to see if the current rep likes it or you have it in your pocket as your escape plan to a new rep.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X