Max Landis article on Deadline

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  • #31
    Re: Max Landis article on Deadline

    I guess it's a matter of opinion whether you see this as a fortunate or unfortunate thing, but early success leads to lots and lots of opportunity, regardless of whether or not those new opportunities pan out.

    Eventually, if Landis keeps writing duds, people will stop giving him money... maybe. But it's gonna take a while for that to happen. Hell, M Night Shyamalan figures to be making flops until he dies at this rate.

    Slightly different, because he's a producer, but a guy I worked for when I first got out to LA used to be an executive at a studio. Then he retired and got a deal with the studio to produce his own stuff. This was in the 80's. He's made about 15 movies since then. The first one was profitable. The other 14 lost money. The most recent one he made lost (I s*** you not) 99.5% of its budget. Yet he still is active. Still has meetings with heads of production at studios. Still gives advice to Oscar winning directors when they call and ask for it. And this guy is an objective failure. His one success wasn't even that great.

    So like I said, it depends on how you look at it. For people struggling to break in, it probably sucks. "They gave THAT GUY money AGAIN?" But if you can be one of those people who makes some big successful thing, you'll be set for life, even if you tripped into that success and all your other ideas are terrible and fail.

    Who knows? It might even make sense. Most things in Hollywood lose money. So when you can give a financier a 1,000% return, they're happy to give you money to burn in the hopes that you find that 1,000% again.

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    • #32
      Re: Max Landis article on Deadline

      Originally posted by juunit View Post
      Who knows? It might even make sense. Most things in Hollywood lose money. So when you can give a financier a 1,000% return, they're happy to give you money to burn in the hopes that you find that 1,000% again.
      It's funny, I'm listening to a Great Courses series on Psychology, and last night was the lecture on Skinner and Behaviorism. There was a lot of talk about conditional responses. If you train an animal to hit a button and get food, they'll keep hitting the button. If you make it a set interval (hit it three times and get food), they'll learn the interval. But if you randomize the interval (sometimes you get food on the 3 hit, sometimes the 5th hit, etc), the conditional will last even longer. It's the psychological explanation behind how gambling affects our minds.

      I'm guessing this might be the case with producers. This person has made 1,000% return in 1 out of 15 projects. I can't pass up the chance of being that next 1 out of 15.

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      • #33
        Re: Max Landis article on Deadline

        Originally posted by UnequalProductions View Post
        It's funny, I'm listening to a Great Courses series on Psychology, and last night was the lecture on Skinner and Behaviorism. There was a lot of talk about conditional responses. If you train an animal to hit a button and get food, they'll keep hitting the button. If you make it a set interval (hit it three times and get food), they'll learn the interval. But if you randomize the interval (sometimes you get food on the 3 hit, sometimes the 5th hit, etc), the conditional will last even longer. It's the psychological explanation behind how gambling affects our minds.

        I'm guessing this might be the case with producers. This person has made 1,000% return in 1 out of 15 projects. I can't pass up the chance of being that next 1 out of 15.
        I imagine it's the case for writers too. A gamble every time we invest months in a project. But I hope if anyone gleans anything from Landis's repeated success, it's that despite the setbacks, if you keep churning out content and challenging yourself, you can break the stigma of a setback. You can continue to work. And not only have a career, but work with some great people along the way. It's that characteristic that I give him real credit for. He didn't fold. Didn't question himself. He just wrote.

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        • #34
          Re: Max Landis article on Deadline

          It's been 25 years since John Landis was relevant. There are a huge number of bigger names who are still relevant, yet their kids are not successful.

          That's because you actually need talent to become successful. Landis has it. And he obviously has a very hard work ethic too.

          If his films keep on bombing, he will go away. But he started with a B.O hit, and it's only been four years since then. And the film was very good.

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          • #35
            Re: Max Landis article on Deadline

            Originally posted by tuukka View Post
            It's been 25 years since John Landis was relevant. There are a huge number of bigger names who are still relevant, yet their kids are not successful.

            That's because you actually need talent to become successful. Landis has it. And he obviously has a very hard work ethic too.

            If his films keep on bombing, he will go away. But he started with a B.O hit, and it's only been four years since then. And the film was very good.
            So John Landis' relationships with Hollywood heavy weights are no longer intact because he hasn't done anything big in a while? I think not.

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            • #36
              Re: Max Landis article on Deadline

              Originally posted by mgwriter View Post
              So John Landis' relationships with Hollywood heavy weights are no longer intact because he hasn't done anything big in a while? I think not.
              That's not the point. We all concede that Landis got to skip the "I don't know anybody in Hollywood!" phase of his early career and was able to get his material read. But that just opens the door - no exec is like "I have to spend a sh*tload of money to buy a terrible script because he's related to a director from 30 years ago!" Plenty of famous people's kids try and fail to make it in Hollywood. All Landis' name did was get him read. His continued success has been earned with good ideas, fervent output, and most importantly, writing a hit movie right out of the gate.
              https://twitter.com/DavidCoggeshall
              http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1548597/

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              • #37
                Re: Max Landis article on Deadline

                Originally posted by ProfessorChomp View Post
                That's not the point. We all concede that Landis got to skip the "I don't know anybody in Hollywood!" phase of his early career and was able to get his material read. But that just opens the door - no exec is like "I have to spend a sh*tload of money to buy a terrible script because he's related to a director from 30 years ago!" Plenty of famous people's kids try and fail to make it in Hollywood. All Landis' name did was get him read. His continued success has been earned with good ideas, fervent output, and most importantly, writing a hit movie right out of the gate.
                The Landis name did more for Max than open a few doors and get him read. Max had a head start, a lifelong education in and about the industry and how to tell stories. That's part of the reason why Max is so far ahead of other talented, hardworking writers of his generation.

                This is all great for Max! But let's not pretend Max was ever like any other no-name aspiring writer, with the only difference being Max has talent and work ethic, where the no-name writer has none leading to their lack of success.

                Some of you may be highly talented and have a great work ethic, but the odds are you will still not succeed as screenwriters. Never underestimate the power of having a daddy who's well connected in the industry. It can even allow a screenwriter(low man on totem pole) to speak out against the Hollywood elite with no risk of being blackballed and unable to get anymore work.

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                • #38
                  Re: Max Landis article on Deadline

                  I like Landis, but how is he benefiting us new writers? Isn't he now becoming the problem? The problem of course being that those with connections (writers, directors, producers) always get their own crap made, while better stories are ignored into oblivion.
                  Last edited by FoxHound; 05-23-2016, 10:20 PM.
                  I'm never wrong. Reality is just stubborn.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Max Landis article on Deadline

                    Originally posted by mgwriter View Post
                    So John Landis' relationships with Hollywood heavy weights are no longer intact because he hasn't done anything big in a while? I think not.
                    I can think of *hundreds* of Hollywood players who are bigger and more influential than John Landis is. Yet their kids aren't making any waves.

                    As hard as it is to admit, talent and work ethic do matter.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Max Landis article on Deadline

                      Originally posted by tuukka View Post
                      I can think of *hundreds* of Hollywood players who are bigger and more influential than John Landis is. Yet their kids aren't making any waves.

                      As hard as it is to admit, talent and work ethic do matter.
                      Of all those hundreds of Hollywood player's kids, how many are trying to be screenwriters? How many even want to work in the industry? Nobody knows.

                      My point is people are saying John Landis has zero industry clout. That is false.

                      If you read my post prior to this one, yes talent and work ethic matter in any endeavor, not just screenwriting. However, talent and work ethic are not the only factors especially in an Industry like Hollywood.

                      Some of you have talent and work ethic and most of those talented, hard working aspiring writers still won't succeed as screenwriters. It's a numbers thing. There just aren't enough opportunities available for every talented, hard working writer to succeed.

                      Enough with the crap about not admitting talent and hard work matter. If that's all it took, Hollywood would be a much more diverse place. Asians have plenty of talented, hard working people among them, yet they are severely underrepresented in all aspects of Hollywood. Are we to believe that the groups of people who have especially strong representation in Hollywood have some sort of monopoly on hard work and talent? Hollywood is not a utopian, merit based industry. Certain people will always have better access to opportunity regardless of their talent and work ethic.

                      What about all those successful screenwriters out there with mediocre talent and a less than stellar work ethic? Some succeed by being in the right place at the right time or by knowing the right people in the right places.

                      Max Landis is succeeding by doing the best he can with the cards he's been dealt. Great for him! But for anyone who says his success is due ONLY to his work ethic and talent, you are blind to the way Hollywood functions.

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                      • #41
                        Re: Max Landis article on Deadline

                        A few random thoughts-

                        Now that we're living in an age where *celebrity* is measured by social media presence, John Landis is now more famous for being Max's father than the other way around.

                        I would chalk up Max's success to his "controversial" Twitter/YouTube presence, plus the fact that he's probably very good in a room (in that his particular brand of BS sounds more authentic and knowing than most), and he's young and seemingly-hip enough to court the most coveted film demos that executives want.

                        Every time someone declares that a film *bombed* (whether it's Max's or M Night's or John Hillcoat's or The Nice Guys this weekend) you are actually helping the studios by increasing their ability to exploit writers. The financial lifespan of a movie is measured in decades, not opening weekends.

                        Almost everything the studios say is a lie. "There's no more money for spec development because of blah blah declining dvd blah blah."

                        The transition from 35mm film to digital has saved the studios hundreds of millions of dollars in reduced shooting schedules and film development and distribution costs, but to hear them talk, the business is riskier than ever, and getting worse all the time.

                        These lies are repeated by the managers and agents and gatekeepers, as well as other working writers, so as not to bite the hand that feeds them, and so they slowly become the *truth*. But they don't hold up to any reason or logic.

                        Most writers have no clout because they are so easily replaced. There are literally thousands of writers desperate to work for free, desperate to give their copyrights away, just for a chance to see their name projected on a screen. And when all that's required of screenwriters these days is a basic level of competency (and Max, by his own admission, is just a prolific journeyman) it's very easy to envision this situation getting worse.

                        I think the article linked at the top of this thread is really more about the increasing muscle of the agencies due to the fear-based reliance on packaging, which is great for writers, for the time being, as long as your repped by WME.

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                        • #42
                          Re: Max Landis article on Deadline

                          Originally posted by mgwriter View Post
                          Of all those hundreds of Hollywood player's kids, how many are trying to be screenwriters? How many even want to work in the industry? Nobody knows.

                          My point is people are saying John Landis has zero industry clout. That is false.

                          If you read my post prior to this one, yes talent and work ethic matter in any endeavor, not just screenwriting. However, talent and work ethic are not the only factors especially in an Industry like Hollywood.

                          Some of you have talent and work ethic and most of those talented, hard working aspiring writers still won't succeed as screenwriters. It's a numbers thing. There just aren't enough opportunities available for every talented, hard working writer to succeed.

                          Enough with the crap about not admitting talent and hard work matter. If that's all it took, Hollywood would be a much more diverse place. Asians have plenty of talented, hard working people among them, yet they are severely underrepresented in all aspects of Hollywood. Are we to believe that the groups of people who have especially strong representation in Hollywood have some sort of monopoly on hard work and talent? Hollywood is not a utopian, merit based industry. Certain people will always have better access to opportunity regardless of their talent and work ethic.

                          What about all those successful screenwriters out there with mediocre talent and a less than stellar work ethic? Some succeed by being in the right place at the right time or by knowing the right people in the right places.

                          Max Landis is succeeding by doing the best he can with the cards he's been dealt. Great for him! But for anyone who says his success is due ONLY to his work ethic and talent, you are blind to the way Hollywood functions.
                          When it comes to Max, I would put it this way:

                          1. Talent.
                          2. Hard work ethic.
                          3. Good in the room (Nobody seems to dispute this).
                          4. Great networking skills.
                          5. An out-going, extrovert personality.
                          6. Famous father.

                          The problem is, so many seem to put emphasis on his 6th most important characteristic, when the first 5 count for so much more.

                          As for kids of big industry people, I would guess that most of them have considered some kind of job in the show biz. But we're not hearing from them. They weren't good enough.

                          How many people on this forum actually have the first 5 characteristics? I would say only very, very few. And most of them are already established pros. I don't score with those 5 things. Do you?

                          Max does.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Max Landis article on Deadline

                            Originally posted by tuukka View Post
                            1. Talent.
                            2. Hard work ethic.
                            3. Good in the room (Nobody seems to dispute this).
                            4. Great networking skills.
                            5. An out-going, extrovert personality.
                            6. Famous father.
                            I will agree with you that #6 is the least important when it comes to an ongoing career, but it also makes #2, #3, and #4 easier, when you have a wealthy father, grew up in the Hollywood environment, and need people to remember your name.

                            We all need to constantly be improving on #1-5, but everyone could use their version of #6 to open the door.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Max Landis article on Deadline

                              Originally posted by ProfessorChomp View Post
                              All Landis' name did was get him read.
                              I think that is quite a lot, though. To be able to continue getting reads until you are read by the person that wants to rep you or wants to produce you or "gets" what you do is hard, imo.

                              That's why stuff like the BL exists. Or Nicholl. Or Stage 32. Or Virtual Pitchfest. Or Fresh Voices. Or Page, or.... on and on... there is an entire industry based on taking writers' money just so they can get a read. Because if they score high enough or place high enough or get some attention, then maybe they can get some traction with a rep or a small prodco...

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                              • #45
                                Re: Max Landis article on Deadline

                                Originally posted by figment View Post
                                I think that is quite a lot, though. To be able to continue getting reads until you are read by the person that wants to rep you or wants to produce you or "gets" what you do is hard, imo.

                                That's why stuff like the BL exists. Or Nicholl. Or Stage 32. Or Virtual Pitchfest. Or Fresh Voices. Or Page, or.... on and on... there is an entire industry based on taking writers' money just so they can get a read. Because if they score high enough or place high enough or get some attention, then maybe they can get some traction with a rep or a small prodco...
                                Realistically, you probably need around 3-5 solid kickass scripts to know if you're failing. If you have 3-5 scripts you feel are kickass and none of them got you traction, something isn't working in your writing. It's not that you've gotten bad reads.

                                Realistically, the majority of those 3-5 scripts should have gotten you some sort of traction if you stand any chance at all in Hollyweird.

                                It's probably best you don't get repped off your first script [like I did] because you'll be clueless out there [despite having known agents for years previously] and will fvck up your first several meetings. And may even learn that you're not as ready as you assumed. It's much harder than it looks.

                                Is that ever discussed here?: Your reps send you out into the brutal landscape with ZERO words of wisdom [for those who've never done a meeting]. Not unlike other aspects of entertainment.
                                DOPE CITY

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