Are scripts getting longer, or is it just the movies?

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  • Are scripts getting longer, or is it just the movies?

    Like most of you, I've more or less internalized the age-old saw that 1 page = 1 minute of screen time. As such, the conventional wisdom goes that there are rough limits to the amount of pages a genre spec realistically oughta have, especially if you're shopping it.

    That being, it's usually maintained that comedies are probably best capped at 90, and dramas had better really be something special if they go anywhere near (or, God forbid - OVER) 120. Of course, there are a lot of opinions on that, but these rough ideas are still pretty widely-held.

    However...In checking out the current listings at my local multiplex, it certainly seems as though there may just be a fair bit of page-bloat going on in some of these produced pieces.

    Observe:

    The Lone Ranger - ‎149 min‎
    The Heat - 117 min‎‎
    ‎‎Pacific Rim - ‎131 min‎
    White House Down - 137 min‎
    Man of Steel - 143 min‎

    Now, throwing out Tonto and Superman (which we obviously know are property pieces), we have three ostensibly original specs there in the middle. And every single one of 'em pushes the "page count" equation to limits most of us would be reluctant to, given their respective genres.

    Total disclosure: The only one of the middle three I've seen is "The Heat." And while I enjoyed it, at one point I remember thinking, "This sure seems to be going on longer than it needs to." And that's not a ding on Katie Dippold, who obviously did a great job. Far better than I would have, certainly. Even so...It's still a thought I had somewhere close to the end of the third act.

    So, what's the big idea? Are the scripts really that long, or are we just getting more drawn-out productions out of 'em? Do page counts still matter, given the box office on these?

  • #2
    Re: Are scripts getting longer, or is it just the movies?

    Man, no wonder The Lone Ranger bombed - who'd want to sit in the cinema during the height of summer for 2 and a half hours?

    To be honest, seeing that a film's long just turns me off... couple that with the notion of missing out on a day's sun and the cinema trip is vetoed.
    Cufk, Tish, Sips.

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    • #3
      Re: Are scripts getting longer, or is it just the movies?

      Unless you have a REALLY important job, complaining about a film's length is pretty asinine. I will shake my head at anything around 240 minutes, unless it's an adaptation of the Holy Bible. However, you can write a lousy script around 90 minutes as much as you can write something over 120 that's also lousy.

      Here are some films I like that go over 120:

      Dogma - 128 min
      Major Dundee - 136 min (extended version)
      Brazil- 143 min (to hell with the 94 min, "love conquers all" version)
      The Wild Bunch -145 min
      Die Hard - 132 min
      American Gangster -157 min (studio version) 177 min (Ridley's version)
      Pulp Fiction - 154 min
      Inglorious Basterds -152 min
      Django Unchained -166 min
      The Amazing Spider-Man -136 min
      Grindhouse -191 min
      Watchmen - 162 min (studio cut), 186 min (Zack Snyder's cut), 215 minutes ("fanboy" cut)
      The Seven Samurai - 207 min
      (UglyShirts mentioned Man of Steel already)

      With the exception of "Dogma", which is a religious satire, NONE of these films are comedies (why did "Knocked Up" had to be 133 min, I'll never know). If you have an epic/adventure story or something that examines the human condition in a serious fashion, give it the treatment it deserves. Treating it with the 90-120 deal is cheating it out of its essence.

      Yeah, I know Aaron Sorkin's "The Social Network" script was 164 pages and David Fincher turned it into a basic two-hour film, but Fincher was a fan of the script. It was a quality script.

      A film script can be long or basic length. It's the quality (plot, theme, characters, three-act structure, etc) that you should give a damn about.
      Last edited by Madbandit; 12-01-2013, 07:19 PM.
      "A screenwriter is much like being a fire hydrant with a bunch of dogs lined up around it.- -Frank Miller

      "A real writer doesn't just want to write; a real writer has to write." -Alan Moore

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      • #4
        Re: Are scripts getting longer, or is it just the movies?

        Originally posted by Madbandit View Post
        Die Hard - 132 min
        It doesn't feel anywhere near as long. God bless Die Hard.

        On topic some films need that length. But as has been pointed out films have been pretty long the last few years and I think it's easy enough to tell which ones have been needlessly stretched out.

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        • #5
          Re: Are scripts getting longer, or is it just the movies?

          Originally posted by TheConnorNoden View Post
          It doesn't feel anywhere near as long. God bless Die Hard.

          On topic some films need that length. But as has been pointed out films have been pretty long the last few years and I think it's easy enough to tell which ones have been needlessly stretched out.
          You're proven my point.
          "A screenwriter is much like being a fire hydrant with a bunch of dogs lined up around it.- -Frank Miller

          "A real writer doesn't just want to write; a real writer has to write." -Alan Moore

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Are scripts getting longer, or is it just the movies?

            Originally posted by Grandmaster View Post
            Who'd want to sit in the cinema during the height of summer for 2 and a half hours?
            If it's 105 out, me.

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            • #7
              Re: Are scripts getting longer, or is it just the movies?

              Yesterday I watched again The Wild Bunch. God, what a great movie.

              Code:
                                  ANGEL
                             (to Tector)
                        Hey, gringo, you take my share.
              
              Tector whirls, his hand flashing for his gun.
              
              Before he can draw, Angel's expression turns serious and a
              gun is suddenly in his hand covering the big outlaw. Angel
              smiles again...then pleads mockingly.
              
                                  ANGEL (cont'd)
                        Don't kill me, gringo...por favor...
                        Take my share of the 'silver'--
                        but-- don't kill me, please.

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              • #8
                "Are scripts getting longer, or is it just the movies?"

                It's just too many kids with ADHD....

                Griffith's INTOLERANCE 197 minutes
                Von Stroheim's GREED 239 minutes (1991 reconstruction)
                Gance's NAPOLEON 235 minutes (1981 reconstruction)
                Mankiewicz's CLEOPATRA 320 minutes (director's cut)

                They probably have trouble sitting still after the cartoons and the news reels.
                JEKYLL & CANADA (free .mp4 download @ Vimeo.com)

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                • #9
                  Re: "Are scripts getting longer, or is it just the movies?"

                  I think there have always been some big summer blockbusters.

                  Terminator 2: Judgment Day was released on July 3, 1991. Runtime 137 minutes. Basically thirty minutes longer than the original Terminator.

                  Some of these movies are meant to be spectacular "events" and that includes a long runtime.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Are scripts getting longer, or is it just the movies?

                    Originally posted by Grandmaster View Post
                    Man, no wonder The Lone Ranger bombed - who'd want to sit in the cinema during the height of summer for 2 and a half hours?

                    To be honest, seeing that a film's long just turns me off... couple that with the notion of missing out on a day's sun and the cinema trip is vetoed.
                    Eh. The sun is out 14 hours out of the day where I live. And its over 100 degrees Fahrenheit for much of that. I don't see it as "missing out", more like "getting a reprieve from."

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                    • #11
                      Re: Are scripts getting longer, or is it just the movies?

                      I was thinking, generally speaking, that scripts were still getting shorter; or at the very least, expected to be shorter. Doesn't mean it's true; just a general trend I've noticed.

                      I am actually digging these long cuts of films in the theater as of late. It justifies my expenditure a hell of a lot more than a terse comedy running at 90 minutes.

                      Funny this thread popped up. All the scripts I've written finished right at the exact length they should have been: 90-115. Yet I just finished a feature comedy that was a 145 pages; which made me consider I was loosing my tight grip on what the film was "about." And now I've gone through it several times in the last few days, all in the name of tightening the theme and vitiated the jokes that have nothing to do with the plot. It's down to 188 pages, although, Ideally, I want my comedies to be 100-110. I'm not Tarantino, and "the point" of my scripts needs to be much more condensed. It's not because my ideas aren't as expansive, that's just how my stories go.

                      I wont even go into the logistics of selling a spec that's longer than 120 pages long. We all know.
                      "...it is the thousandth forgetting of a dream dreamt a thousand times and forgotten a thousand times."
                      --Franz Kafka "Investigations Of A Dog"

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                      • #12
                        Re: Are scripts getting longer, or is it just the movies?

                        Originally posted by Gssstudios View Post
                        I just finished a feature comedy that was a 145 pages; which made me consider I was loosing my tight grip on what the film was "about." And now I've gone through it several times in the last few days, all in the name of tightening the theme and vitiated the jokes that have nothing to do with the plot. It's down to 188 pages, although, Ideally, I want my comedies to be 100-110.
                        I assume you meant 118, not 188?

                        Personally, I love long movies when they pull it off. A tight story is a tight story. It can take the form of 90 minutes or three hours.

                        As long as scenes are purposeful and entertaining, sure, keep giving me more for my money. It may get exponentially harder to make it work the more that gets packed in, but it can.

                        Power to your long comedy. If it pulls it off.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Are scripts getting longer, or is it just the movies?

                          It's just too many kids with ADHD.... They probably have trouble sitting still after the cartoons and the news reels.
                          Harrumph!


                          "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

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