The Definitive Final Word On The Blacklist 3.0

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  • The Definitive Final Word On The Blacklist 3.0

    Just wanted to relate my most recent BL experience for anyone out there curious about the cost / benefit and how things are operating since they changed the pricing structure.

    Brief backstory- I've used the BL twice before, both times listing high budget studio-type features. On each of those occasions I purchased 2 evaluations, owing to the fact that it takes an average of at least 2 scores to get your script ranked on any of the top lists.

    Both scripts got 7's overall, found their way into the top 25 in their respective genre rankings, and went almost completely ignored. 1 or 2 pro views, 0 pro downloads, and a quick trip into oblivion.

    This was very disheartening for me and obviously disappointing at the time, because I didn't really understand the seemingly arbitrary numerical scoring system. Though I've since come to the realization that the reason that my scripts didn't garner any interest is because a 7 is a PASS. So is a 6 or a 5 or a 3. The only difference between a 7 and a 3 is that a 7 is indicative that a script might be worth the time and effort to develop further.

    I uploaded my newest script about a month ago, this time a small crime thriller that could be made for 5-10 million, in the hopes of attracting a larger pool of buyers.

    I only purchased 1 evaluation this time, because I wasn't really interested in getting onto any 'top' lists. I just wanted a fresh set of eyes to tell me what was wrong with it. I squeezed a 135 page story into 120 pages and, in my opinion, truncated the ending and undermined the emotional core of the story, and I wanted to get a handle on how obvious the damage was.

    The review came back in 5 days (much faster than all of my previous experiences) and it was an 8. Needless to say I was very pleasantly surprised. Did not expect that at all. Better yet, the evaluation didn't really list any weaknesses, just encouragement and a few exclamation marks.

    I immediately opted in for the 2 free evaluations (to go with the 2 free months of hosting) and my script was assigned to readers and downloaded almost immediately. The first of these bonus reviews came back in less than 8 hours (!) and it was another 8, and even more complimentary than the previous one.

    Knowing that I was now entitled to 2 more free reviews and two more free months of hosting, I decided not to opt in for it. Because what did I have to gain here, except the inevitable diminishing returns? The script was already in the top 5 for the website, and I got my first pro download hours after the second review posted. And whoever that pro was, they came back and rated the script a 9 (bless them), which boosted it to #1. Pretty exciting for a script I had no faith in to begin with.

    Over the next 6 days (which lapped over the Monday BL email) the script got 13 pro views and 7 pro downloads, which doesn't seem like much, but it's 700% more than my previous efforts, and I got an email from a lit manager at a company you have heard of, inquiring about other scripts. I sent him one of my high budget failures from 2015. Ugh (Lesson 1: ALWAYS have more than one good script ready just in case).

    During this week, I emailed about 20 managers and agents (I know that's not much, but they were very targeted) mentioning the 8s and the high ranking, and didn't get a single read request (Really?). I even sent 5 via Virtual Pitch Fest targeting producers, (which I really didn't want to do- there's just something so seemingly desperate about paying people to read an email) knowing that they would have to at least respond one way or the other.

    They did: 'Sounds great. Not for us.'

    This is a tough business, folks.

    At this point the second of my complimentary evaluations came back (after 6 long days) and it was the '6' that I had been expecting all along. Damn. Someone was out to take me down a peg.

    I immediately changed my mind on the second helping of free evaluations and opted back in. Had to bolster that 6 with something.

    Both of the new evaluations were done and posted in less than 8 hours. I don't know if there was some kind of demand for my script because there were so few crime thrillers listed that week or if everyone is getting this kind of service, but it is an amazing change from the way things used to be.

    Anyway, I got two 7s. Not great, but not enough to knock me out of the top 3, where my script remained for most of November, ending up with 32 pro views and 13 downloads (.400 average).

    Along the way, I was contacted by 2 small independent producers, who are making tentative nibbles regarding options.

    The two things that stood out to me about this whole thing so far is the speed at which things take place these days, (I have been doing this long enough to remember mailing hard copies out and then waiting 8-12 weeks for a No Thanks) and how lucky I was to not get that '6' review first.

    The lit manager got back to me after he read my other script, about 3 weeks later. He didn't offer to rep me, but left the door open for submissions. Good enough.

    I don't know what's going to happen for me here (I am mostly curious about who the 10 other downloads were and if they passed the script to anyone else and if I'll ever hear from any of them) but I am very encouraged about the chances for my little script, especially after some future rewrites.

    So I guess the TL;DR here is that the Blacklist website is functioning for the most part exactly as it was designed to. You just have to execute your idea really really well, lower your expectations and hope for a little luck.

  • #2
    Re: The Definitive Final Word On The Blacklist 3.0

    To me this says far more about the budget of your crime thriller (making it more attractive).

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The Definitive Final Word On The Blacklist 3.0

      and how things work off the Black List site as well.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The Definitive Final Word On The Blacklist 3.0

        Just speaking to the timing aspect of this -- I can confirm it's definitely A LOT faster than it was before. In late October, I paid for two evals and got the first one back that same night and the second one back the next day. It totally caught me off guard as I was expecting to wait at least two weeks (which still would have been better than the 4+ weeks it used to be before the pricing change).

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The Definitive Final Word On The Blacklist 3.0

          Hey, how's it going, kintnerboy? I'd love to read your crime thriller. Congrats on the scores.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The Definitive Final Word On The Blacklist 3.0

            Thanks for sharing your story. It sounds both encouraging and discouraging at the same time.

            What a whirlwind for you, and congrats on the strong feedback.

            I'm disappointed to hear about your VPF returns--in all the interviews I've heard, they always say things like "If you score an 8, of course, by all means I'm interested!"

            You said you sent to five producers on VPF... If you are interested in getting a manager (and I don't know for sure), do you think that perhaps sending it to five managers might have given you a better chance for finding representation??

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The Definitive Final Word On The Blacklist 3.0

              Originally posted by SBdeb View Post
              Thanks for sharing your story. It sounds both encouraging and discouraging at the same time.
              It is discouraging. I'd speculate that in 5 or 10 years the idea of an unknown, unproven writer selling an original spec will be a 2 or 3 times a year occurrence. Disney has already becomes the most successful studio in the world by specifically not looking at any original ideas (hard to imagine the other studios didn't notice this), and the prestige dramatic films that used to win Oscars have been supplanted by biopics and the satirical 'based on a true story' comedy-dramas (American Hustle, Big Short, Argo, Wolf Of Wall Street, etc), none of which required an original spec.

              The independent producers will always be around, of course, but there's going to be such a supply / demand imbalance (mostly supply) that any writers that don't want to work for free will be quickly replaced by one of the thousands that do.

              Originally posted by SBdeb View Post
              I'm disappointed to hear about your VPF returns--in all the interviews I've heard, they always say things like "If you score an 8, of course, by all means I'm interested!"
              I think maybe the first 10000 emails a manager got with 'BLACKLIST 8' in the subject line might have had a little more juice.

              But the VPF thing really shocked me. Here I am targeting small production companies that have made films like mine in the past, who are specifically soliciting thrillers, and telling them that I have a well-liked script with multiple 8s, with a budget between 5-10 million, and they don't even have to bother with a release form if they don't want (they can just go to the BL website and read it there)... and their reply is 'No thanks.'?..... like not even to take a peek at the first 10 pages real quick while they were taking a break from calculating how much money they lost on Bad Santa 2?

              It hurts.

              Originally posted by SBdeb View Post
              You said you sent to five producers on VPF... If you are interested in getting a manager (and I don't know for sure), do you think that perhaps sending it to five managers might have given you a better chance for finding representation??
              If a manager contacted me and we clicked, I'd be all for it, but it's not really something I'm pushing for, especially if it's one of these types that likes to play log line roulette every other week. I just want to write what I want to write.

              But I do appreciate the validation of my work by the people who responded to it. I know this is what I'm supposed to be doing. If I could develop an idea that can be made for a million dollars, I'll go raise the money myself.


              edited to add: Just to elaborate on the VPF thing, my experience has been that managers are super easy to reach out to via standard queries for free, whereas production companies usually have stronger firewalls, so it's kind of worth the money to get through.
              Last edited by kintnerboy; 12-11-2016, 06:29 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The Definitive Final Word On The Blacklist 3.0

                Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post
                I


                But the VPF thing really shocked me. Here I am targeting small production companies that have made films like mine in the past, who are specifically soliciting thrillers, and telling them that I have a well-liked script with multiple 8s, with a budget between 5-10 million, and they don't even have to bother with a release form if they don't want (they can just go to the BL website and read it there)... and their reply is 'No thanks.'?..... like not even to take a peek at the first 10 pages real quick while they were taking a break from calculating how much money they lost on Bad Santa 2?

                It hurts.

                .
                I'm increasingly skeptical of VPF and wonder how many pro members use it just as a modest source of income but have no intention of actually reading any scripts that come in via that channel. (They get paid a small amount to respond to queries.)

                I'd be curious to know if they have to request a certain % of scripts in order to stay on the money train.

                Any folks here who know?
                "People who work in Hollywood are the ones who didn't quit." -- Lawrence Kasdan

                Please visit my website and blog: www.lauridonahue.com.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The Definitive Final Word On The Blacklist 3.0

                  Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post
                  It is discouraging. I'd speculate that in 5 or 10 years the idea of an unknown, unproven writer selling an original spec will be a 2 or 3 times a year occurrence.
                  it's close to that now. There are only about a dozen reported spec sales per year from previously unsold writers.
                  "People who work in Hollywood are the ones who didn't quit." -- Lawrence Kasdan

                  Please visit my website and blog: www.lauridonahue.com.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The Definitive Final Word On The Blacklist 3.0

                    Originally posted by LauriD View Post
                    I'm increasingly skeptical of VPF and wonder how many pro members use it just as a modest source of income but have no intention of actually reading any scripts that come in via that channel. (They get paid a small amount to respond to queries.)

                    I'd be curious to know if they have to request a certain % of scripts in order to stay on the money train.

                    Any folks here who know?
                    The only 2 things I can tell you from experience is that John Shepherd at Cross Creek will usually give you a personal reply that, even though it's a no, makes you feel like he actually considered it for more than 5 seconds. A pass is a pass, but it stings less when it seems like they care a little.

                    The second thing is, don't ever waste your time pitching Zero Gravity via VPF. They always say yes, and then tell you to send it to the same queries@ email on their website that you could have done for free.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The Definitive Final Word On The Blacklist 3.0

                      On another note, I got another rating today from a Blacklist pro who downloaded my script. So far my average is 1 out of every 7 downloads, which is exactly what they said it would be. Weird how people are so predictable.

                      It's also kind of nice to know that at least 14% of people out there are mensches.
                      Last edited by kintnerboy; 12-14-2016, 06:13 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Frustrated with the Blacklist

                        I genuinely appreciate what Franklin Leonard states as the BL's mission and realize how tough the process is. I've had several scripts that did fairly well in various contests (quarters, semis, and finals, but no wins--Page among them) that only garnered scores of 5 or 6 (and one 7) for scores on BL.

                        Rough to accept, but I understand.

                        But a recent script I uploaded scored a 6, several 7s, several 8s, and a 5. I listened to the most common complaints regarding three separate issues that readers felt needed addressing. I usually only pay attention to complaints made by more than one or two readers, so I addressed those issues and made subtle changes in accordance with their suggestions. I actually agree with the suggestions and feel the script is stronger for them--thank you, BL, for that much.

                        But the revised script received a 6. I was floored. I made the changes almost verbatim as they were suggested. This last review noted that I should not have included x, y, z for various reasons... but x, y, z were exactly what others had suggested I include. I realize it's tough for any of you to arrive at any conclusions without actual story specifics, but trust me, this post would be five times longer if I included the specific changes.

                        My point is, I understand that criticism is subjective, but what am I to make of advice that I take, only to be punished later for following it?

                        I'm tempted to buy another eval, but I don't know whether to leave my current revision up (which I now love), or put up the earlier version that scored better. To be honest, I'm so confused now that I feel either version is as likely to score another 6 or worse as it is another 8 or better.

                        I truly do appreciate the experience so far, and especially appreciate the suggestions that made excellent sense and (I feel) improved the script. But I don't know what to make of the subjectivity of the process, especially when you're told to do one thing, and once you do, you're critiqued for doing it by someone else.

                        Thoughts? I'm really at a crossroads here as to what to do.

                        Thanks in advance. And if it's not already evident, this is NOT a dis of BL. I'm just frustrated with it currently.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Frustrated with the Blacklist

                          Originally posted by guiltypleasures View Post
                          My point is, I understand that criticism is subjective, but what am I to make of advice that I take, only to be punished later for following it?

                          I'm tempted to buy another eval, but I don't know whether to leave my current revision up (which I now love), or put up the earlier version that scored better. To be honest, I'm so confused now that I feel either version is as likely to score another 6 or worse as it is another 8 or better.

                          I truly do appreciate the experience so far, and especially appreciate the suggestions that made excellent sense and (I feel) improved the script. But I don't know what to make of the subjectivity of the process, especially when you're told to do one thing, and once you do, you're critiqued for doing it by someone else.
                          Been there, as have many other users. You make changes in response to what you believe are consensus critiques, only to receive a similar/lower score with your next eval. Tempting you to buy another one.

                          My advice is, don't. If you've received three scores in the same range, then it's probably time to accept that that is the way your script is viewed by the BL's readers. At that point I would pull it off the site and leave it off, unless you decided to complete a major rewrite.

                          The not-very-smart thing to do (and I know many people have fallen victim to it) is to keep buying evals, praying to receive the elusive 8. This can easily add up to hundreds of dollars, especially with the new higher prices. It would be a better investment of your money to get a look at your script from a consultant you respect, one that offers a more in-depth opinion than what BL provides.

                          Or, if you feel certain you are confident in your script's current state, try other avenues that exist besides the BL to get it exposure -- the main ones I utilize are contests and Virtual Pitchfest. With VPF, you can include positive quotes from your BL evaluation in your queries, even if you didn't get a high score (I've used that strategy to garner a number of reads).

                          The point is, don't get stuck in a cycle where you are throwing good money after bad. The BL may be enticing to use because of its fast turnaround, but buying a buttload of evaluations does not in any way increase your chances of landing an 8 or above. It does certainly burn a deeper hole in your pocket.
                          "I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork.-- Peter De Vries

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Frustrated with the Blacklist

                            Originally posted by guiltypleasures View Post
                            I'm tempted to buy another eval, but I don't know whether to leave my current revision up (which I now love), or put up the earlier version that scored better. To be honest, I'm so confused now that I feel either version is as likely to score another 6 or worse as it is another 8 or better.
                            If you love the revised version, then that's the one you stick with.

                            Getting a 6 on something you feel is an improved draft stinks, but was there anything in the evaluation that was useful, or did the reader just not connect with it? (it happens).

                            There's always going to be people chiming in to any BL thread with the same old complaints about the costs, but it actually sounds like you had a pretty good experience.

                            You say you got 'several' 8s, which means that you were either entitled to 4 or 6 complimentary evaluations, and free hosting, so you weren't exactly shelling out a lot of money here (unless the 8s were from industry members and not paid evaluations?).

                            Did you get a lot of downloads? Did anyone (agent, manager, producer) get in touch with you? At the end of the day, that's the real proof of whether you have something good on your hands.

                            But I do agree that if you think you have a story that's worth sticking with and developing over the long haul, you should get as many opinions as you can, whether it be from a trusted script swap buddy or one of the consultants here on DD. The BL isn't the be-all-end-all to anything.

                            The trick is knowing which advice to ignore. It's your story.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Frustrated with the Blacklist

                              Originally posted by UpandComing View Post
                              Been there, as have many other users. You make changes in response to what you believe are consensus critiques, only to receive a similar/lower score with your next eval. Tempting you to buy another one.

                              My advice is, don't. If you've received three scores in the same range, then it's probably time to accept that that is the way your script is viewed by the BL's readers. At that point I would pull it off the site and leave it off, unless you decided to complete a major rewrite.

                              The not-very-smart thing to do (and I know many people have fallen victim to it) is to keep buying evals, praying to receive the elusive 8. This can easily add up to hundreds of dollars, especially with the new higher prices. It would be a better investment of your money to get a look at your script from a consultant you respect, one that offers a more in-depth opinion than what BL provides.

                              Or, if you feel certain you are confident in your script's current state, try other avenues that exist besides the BL to get it exposure -- the main ones I utilize are contests and Virtual Pitchfest. With VPF, you can include positive quotes from your BL evaluation in your queries, even if you didn't get a high score (I've used that strategy to garner a number of reads).

                              The point is, don't get stuck in a cycle where you are throwing good money after bad. The BL may be enticing to use because of its fast turnaround, but buying a buttload of evaluations does not in any way increase your chances of landing an 8 or above. It does certainly burn a deeper hole in your pocket.
                              It may surprise people, but I agree with this line of thinking in the main.

                              Comment

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