A good script vs. a sellable script

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  • Re: A good script vs. a sellable script

    I'm actually a terrible person to ask anything about thrillers, because I believe they are 100% contingent on plausibility to 'work' effectively, and I know I am in the minority in this opinion (for example, both Minority Report and Prisoners are above 82% on Rotten Tomatoes, yet I believe they are among the worst thrillers ever written).

    Then again, there is a reason you don't see that many novels by Patricia Cornwell and James Patterson and Dean Koontz adapted into films. They are implausible to the point of being laughable.

    But I will say this, the early 1990's was a great time for thrillers, with Silence Of The Lambs and The Fugitive deservedly being nominated for Best Picture Oscars.

    In The Line Of Fire was probably the best one that came from a spec.

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    • Re: A good script vs. a sellable script

      Originally posted by Geoff Alexander View Post
      Nonsense. People really are out there writing great specs.
      You're certainly entitled to your opinion.

      Would kinda lend more credibility if you could name one, though.

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      • Re: A good script vs. a sellable script

        Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post
        You're certainly entitled to your opinion.

        Would kinda lend more credibility if you could name one, though.
        Why, so I can have a meaningful conversation about what constitutes "greatness"?

        I don't need that, and I don't care about credibility in this discussion. ****, I have a client who has written a spec pilot and a spec feature in the last year that I would call "great", which in my world means something which, if produced, will add lasting value to the canon of film and television.

        That's all I care about.

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        • Re: A good script vs. a sellable script

          Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post
          Which basically means that the idea that anyone at all is out there writing 'great' specs is a myth, and anyone who continues to encourage wanna-be writers that *all* they have to do to break in is write one is a charlatan.
          No one said that's *all* you have to do. What do so many people resort to absolutes when they think pretend they are countering what someone else said?

          It's amazing that you seem to think that people are charlatan's for telling us writing a great spec is the way to break in, especially when many of these people are professional scriptwriters, who broke in by writing a great spec script.

          I think I'll take the advice of those who actually broke in. Thank you anyway.
          "I just couldn't live in a world without me."

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          • Re: A good script vs. a sellable script

            Originally posted by StoryWriter View Post
            No one said that's *all* you have to do.
            Originally posted by Geoff Alexander View Post
            Write a great movie, it can be any genre or period or budget, none of that matters, just write a kick ass movie, that's all you have to do to launch a career.

            Guess I better get my eyes checked then.... My apologies.

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            • Re: A good script vs. a sellable script

              Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post
              Guess I better get my eyes checked then.... My apologies.
              "The overthinking that is going on in this thread is a little bit mind boggling. Write a great movie, it can be any genre or period or budget, none of that matters, just write a kick ass movie, that's all you have to do to launch a career.

              Simple "

              Obviously you don't do sarcasm. (The "Simple " was supposed to be a *subtle* hint)

              But by all means, if you think waiting for a rich relative to die and leave you an inheritance, so you can make your own movie, is the way to success -- go for it -- sounds like you got it all figured out.

              Good luck with that.
              "I just couldn't live in a world without me."

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              • Re: A good script vs. a sellable script

                Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post
                Would kinda lend more credibility if you could name one, though.
                -- I named three in my last post. Yes, great art is subjective, but all three were highly praised by critics and they were all commercial successes. One or two were Nicholl Fellowship winners.

                You may disagree, but I'm not gonna debate it. The proof that there are writers out there writing some great material is not debatable. It's a proven fact.

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                • Re: A good script vs. a sellable script

                  Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
                  -- I named three in my last post. Yes, great art is subjective, but all three were highly praised by critics and they were all commercial successes. One or two were Nicholl Fellowship winners.

                  You may disagree, but I'm not gonna debate it. The proof that there are writers out there writing some great material is not debatable. It's a proven fact.
                  Yes. Your 3 spec examples over the last 15 years falls right in line with my 'less than 5% of great films come from specs' opinion, so we're both in agreement.... If anything I'm being way too generous. It's more like >2%.


                  Anyway, I totally agree with the OP's comments, particularly this:

                  Originally posted by juunit View Post
                  My point here though, is that to write a script that is going to impress these interns, you need to follow the BS rules that really only apply to tentpoles. As in, likeable characters, definitive act structure with turning points, plot driven, etc.
                  To that I would add- Make sure you cast is as diverse as possible along gender and ethnic lines, even if the story doesn't call for it, and if it's a comedy, make sure there are no jokes that might offend the Twitter Army.

                  The studios are way more afraid of social-media blowback than they are of making a bad movie, and things are only going to get worse.

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                  • Re: A good script vs. a sellable script

                    Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post
                    Your 3 spec examples over the last 15 years falls right in line with my 'less than 5% of great films come from specs' opinion, so we're both in agreement....
                    -- What's wrong with you?

                    You ask to name one. I named three. Now you say, Oh yeah, that doesn't add up to much over the past 15 years.

                    Reading your posts is a waste of my time.

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                    • Re: A good script vs. a sellable script

                      Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post
                      anyone who continues to encourage wanna-be writers that *all* they have to do to break in is write one is a charlatan.
                      Uh yeah. I guess technically you're right. Writing a great script isn't ALL you have to do to break in.

                      You actually have to make an effort for people to read it. You're not magically going to break in if your script stays on your computer.

                      But after that, if you're persistent enough, SOMETHING will most likely happen. I mean, there are no guarantees.

                      People who don't think this is true just aren't writing great scripts.

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                      • Re: A good script vs. a sellable script

                        A lot of writers every year, right now even, are preparing loglines and query letters to send out for what they think is a great script or at least good. The problem is who the judge is. You really shouldn't feel anything is great or good, until you give it to two or three trusted peers who have ripped you a new one before so you know they'd have no problem doing it again. Have those people come back and say, wow - all in all this was a really good script. Impressive. You get that, then by all means get out the laptop word processing software and start drafting a query letter, start fooling with the logline. It's time.

                        Too many amateur writers think they are going to spin out a script in a few months and just start selling baby. That's why its hard to get read and the real players in the Hollywood have a lot of red tape a script must go through to get into a player's hands. 95% of the amateur writers out there have no shot. Zero. Some will go one and break through, all most all won't. Those aren't blanket statements or generalities. All non pros would love to count themselves in that 5% that write well enough to get their foot in the door, when in reality they don't. This is no different than pro sports, or being an actor. The failure rate is gigantic. I mean seasoned writers fail at placing their recent script at a production house or Studio. Think about the attention to detail they put into their scripts. Sometimes they don't sell. Can you honestly say that your process is that efficient, that detail intensive? Be honest...

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                        • Re: A good script vs. a sellable script

                          Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
                          -- What's wrong with you?

                          You ask to name one. I named three. Now you say, Oh yeah, that doesn't add up to much over the past 15 years.

                          Reading your posts is a waste of my time.
                          Speaking of wastes of time, you replied to a post I directed at Geoff that had nothing to do with you, to make a point that had nothing to do with what I was talking about, so I guess we're even.


                          Anyway....

                          The thing that puzzles me more and more lately is, why would anyone want to write a spec screenplay (as opposed to a novel or a tv pilot or directing their own feature or literally anything else)?

                          If you think about it, feature films are the most constricting, narratively handicapped format, the gatekeepers are by and large clueless, gutless or acting out of self-interest, and the studios don't really care about anything but blockbusters.

                          You'd have to be a masochist, or else a complete hack who's hoping to network and ass-kiss your way in.

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                          • Re: A good script vs. a sellable script

                            just write to the best of your ability and let the chips fall where they will.

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                            • Re: A good script vs. a sellable script

                              Or find somebody who knows how to market it

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                              • Re: A good script vs. a sellable script

                                If you wanna pitch a "passion project" to Ari Gold, your name better be Vincent Chase. Even then, you'll still get some flack.

                                Russell Crowe was interviewed not so long ago, on 60 Minutes I believe, about his new identity as a director. He intimated that he wanted to focus more on directing in the future, but guess what: for the time being, HE has to be in the films he directs, to actually get financing for his passion projects. Without him as an actor, he has no leverage. And he is ***Russell Crowe.***

                                I remember reading that Robert freaking Duval spent 13 years trying to get his passion project (THE APOSTLE) off the ground.

                                These guys are HW royalty.

                                Harvey Keitel did an interview saying that the whole "cream will rise to the top" idea is utter bullshit, and that the only reason RESERVOIR DOGS got made is because Tarantino made the right connections and made it happen.

                                I'm sorry, but "write what you love" seems like misguided advice to me--not in terms of writing, obviously, DUH, but in terms of realistic outcome. There is stuff that is commercial and stuff that isn't. If what your heart desires is more difficult, less mainstream material, you're probably better off pitching indie companies directly. They can be very responsive.

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