'a conceit' -what does it really mean?

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  • 'a conceit' -what does it really mean?

    In my mind, the word "conceit" always meant something along these lines: "A favorable and especially unduly high opinion of one's own abilities or worth." Now I come to screenwriting and see "a conceit" in reviews of scripts and movies. I get the dictionary-meaning difference, but I'm still puzzled by what it's supposed to mean.

    Sure, I can see "a conceit" being used as a clinical description, neither good nor bad - though, I don't get the point of it being used that way. I figure, almost any thought is a conceit at some level. However, my brain struggles to separate the facial meaning of "a conceit" from the negative connotation of "conceit" as in, "He's conceited."

    So in the movie-making context, is "a conceit" generally negative? Is it akin to "too clever by half" or "too cute"? Do you see it used regularly in a neutral way? Ever with a positive connotation?

  • #2
    Re: 'a conceit' -what does it really mean?

    A CONCEIT in a cinematic sense is the premise that the audience accepts in order for the story to take place.

    For example, you have to believe that there's a hidden world of magic and evil to accept the story of Harry Potter.

    Or in a mundane world, that Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan can email each other in cyberspace and they happen to also be rival bookstore owners.

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    • #3
      Re: 'a conceit' -what does it really mean?

      There's no negative connotation to this "conceit." You'd be better off thinking of it as an entirely different word than conceit-as-in-conceited, just as you differentiate "fan" meaning sports fanatic from a "fan" that moves the air on a warm day.

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      • #4
        Re: 'a conceit' -what does it really mean?

        The definition you're looking for is the second one -- "an artistic expression or device" -- not the first one, egotism.

        When discussing movies, it's the core idea that makes the movie go. The conceit is different than the concept or logline. The conceit is the kernel of story that makes the script unique or interesting. The concept of You've Got Mail is two competing bookstore owners in pitched battle in the real world anonymously fall in love over the internet and must reconcile their business hatred with their true love (or something like that -- I dunno, I just dashed that off). The conceit of You've Got Mail is two people who hate each other in the real world fall in love anonymously over the internet. The concept fleshes out the conceit into a story. You could use that conceit in a number of different ways: bickering neighbors, Romeo and Juliet, gay basketball players in the middle of the playoffs (now there's a golden idea!), Russian & American spies, and so on.

        I think understanding the difference between a conceit and a concept is crucial to understanding screenwriting.

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        • #5
          Re: 'a conceit' -what does it really mean?

          Interesting, there seems to quite a bit of divergence on what, exactly, makes up a "conceit" (in writing terms). From the googles:

          According to this science fiction writer, a conceit is "a story contrived so that the author can spring a silly surprise about its setting." (i.e. conceit = BAD)

          This blogger says screenplays can benefit from having a conceit, which "is an extended metaphor with a complex logic that governs a poem or story." And then s/he gives an example of a poem that was either silly or over my head.

          The jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none site, eHow, says "A conceit is a film term used to describe any aspect of your screenplay that makes it different from every other story." This definition sounds the most "off" to me.

          According to Scriptwrangler, a conceit is defined as "something like 'a writer's distinct strategy for unity.' It's what makes a piece of work identifiable as itself. It's what holds a piece of work together." Which is kind of confusing and kind of like what the smart-sounding poetry blogger said, so I'm going to go with this one.

          Wow, I sure do waste a lot of time here on DD!
          Last edited by snoozn; 11-16-2010, 08:29 PM. Reason: typos

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          • #6
            Re: 'a conceit' -what does it really mean?

            Dictionary
            conceit |kənˈsēt|
            noun
            1 excessive pride in oneself : he was puffed up with conceit. See notes at egotism, pride .
            2. a fanciful expression in writing or speech; an elaborate metaphor : the idea of the wind's singing is a prime romantic conceit.
            - an artistic effect or device : the director's brilliant conceit was to film this tale in black and white.
            - a fanciful notion : he is alarmed by the widespread conceit that he spent most of the 1980s drunk.
            ORIGIN late Middle English (in the sense [idea or notion,] also [quaintly decorative article] ): from conceive , on the pattern of pairs such as deceive, deceit.

            Thesaurus
            conceit
            noun
            1 his extraordinary conceit vanity, narcissism, conceitedness, egotism, self-admiration, self-regard; pride, arrogance, hubris, self-importance; self-satisfaction, smugness; informal bigheadedness; literary vainglory. See notes at egotism, pride . antonym humility.
            2 the conceits of Shakespeare's verse image, imagery, metaphor, simile, trope; play on words, pun, quip, witticism.
            3 the conceit of time travel idea, notion, fancy.
            "The Hollywood film business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." Hunter S Thompson

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            • #7
              Re: 'a conceit' -what does it really mean?

              I didn't know "conceit" comes from "conceive," but "idea, notion, fancy" matches my understanding of the term. I co-wrote and co-produced a short called MIXED MARRIAGE. The comic conceit we thought up is a world where time travel is so common, people date and marry others from any time period. That's the underlying notion. Our specific concept is that a marriage counselor struggles to resolve the challenging cultural differences and misunderstandings between one such couple. She's a modern career woman, he's a pre-verbal cave man.

              (By the way, if you care to check it out, my writing partner plays the cave man. He's very funny. It's at Brookwoodfilms.com)

              Originally posted by cshel View Post
              Dictionary
              conceit |kənˈsēt|
              noun
              from conceive.

              Thesaurus
              conceit
              noun
              3 the conceit of time travel idea, notion, fancy.
              Last edited by Joaneasley; 11-18-2010, 07:56 AM. Reason: added the parenthetical.

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              • #8
                Re: 'a conceit' -what does it really mean?

                Originally posted by Joaneasley View Post
                I didn't know "conceit" comes from "conceive," but "idea, notion, fancy" matches my understanding of the term. I co-wrote and co-produced a short called MIXED MARRIAGE. The comic conceit we thought up is a world where time travel is so common, people date and marry others from any time period. That's the underlying notion. Our specific concept is that a marriage counselor struggles to resolve the challenging cultural differences and misunderstandings between one such couple. She's a modern career woman, he's a pre-verbal cave man.

                (By the way, if you care to check it out, my writing partner plays the cave man. He's very funny. It's at Brookwoodfilms.com)
                Joaneasley, sounds interesting, but I couldn't find that short at that website.

                And thanks to all for the comments. I now know that I was wrong and that a simple, correct answer is at least somewhat elusive. So, additional perspectives are certainly welcome.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: 'a conceit' -what does it really mean?

                  the heart of the story.

                  two people fall in love over the internet – you’ve got mail
                  an angry man and an annoying person take a road trip – due date
                  four best friends reconstruct the events of a bachelor party – the hangover

                  note, i could be entirely wrong (wouldn't be the first time!) but that's what i'm getting from the conversation...
                  life happens
                  despite a few cracked pots-
                  and random sunlight

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                  • #10
                    Re: 'a conceit' -what does it really mean?

                    My take on it is the necessary level of suspension of disbelief that the writer wishes his audience to acheive in order for the story to work - making the confluence of seemingly improbable events possible, interesting and entertaining.

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                    • #11
                      Re: 'a conceit' -what does it really mean?

                      darn, yep, sounds like i'm wrong again. would this be accurate? i totally copied from ehow but it looks like a straightforward definition...

                      --A conceit is a film term used to describe any aspect of your screenplay that makes it different from every other story. For example, there are hundreds of films about Detectives. However, there is only one film about a "Pet Detective."
                      life happens
                      despite a few cracked pots-
                      and random sunlight

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: 'a conceit' -what does it really mean?

                        Conceit is one of those words that identifies a variety of concepts, some difficult to grasp. The writer should make clear what the intended concept is before using the word.

                        In other words, unless the intended meaning is clear to most readers, the writer should not use "conceit" as shorthand for what he or she is trying to say.

                        Therefore, the writer should first make clear, in all but obvious situations, what he or she is trying to say before using the word.

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                        • #13
                          Re: 'a conceit' -what does it really mean?

                          This should be the link
                          www.brookwoodfilms.com/mixed_marriage.html


                          Originally posted by Manchester View Post
                          Joaneasley, sounds interesting, but I couldn't find that short at that website.

                          And thanks to all for the comments. I now know that I was wrong and that a simple, correct answer is at least somewhat elusive. So, additional perspectives are certainly welcome.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: 'a conceit' -what does it really mean?

                            Originally posted by Joaneasley View Post
                            Thanks, but FYI: The "low-speed" link on that page leads to "Sorry, the page you requested was not found." As for the "high speed" link, I could not get the video to work on my Windows 7 machine by (a) downloading/opening or (b) simply clicking in MSIE, Firefox, or Opera. Maybe it's an Apple thing? Again, FYI.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: 'a conceit' -what does it really mean?

                              It's the disbelief inherent to the concept that must be suspended. More common in genre stories (sci-fi/fantasy) than simple everyday character pieces. For instance the conceit of MINORITY REPORT is the idea that there are three precognitive humans that have allowed pre-crime technology to develop. That's the outlandish, unrealistic idea the audience has to swallow before the story works. In JURASSIC PARK the conceit is that dinosaurs have been brought back to life using DNA found in amber. In AVATAR the conceit is that human consciousness can be transferred to non-human host bodies, specifically the big blue cat people of Pandora. There is no conceit in CRAZY HEART, it's easy to believe that Jeff Bridges is a washed up country star who still has a little bit of gas left in the tank. But just because it's a non-genre movie, doesn't mean there's no conceit. The conceit of the aforementioned YOU'VE GOT MAIL, at the time, was something the audience would have to suspend disbelief for. Nowadays people meet on the internet all the time, and meeting someone who happens to factor into your real life somehow is not uncommon, so I don't think the audience would look at the premise as fantastical or unrealistic. As for the distinction between "conceit" as it applies to ones personality, and "conceit" as it applies to screenwriting, there is one similarity. Both involve some level of self-deception.

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