Writers and depression
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Re: Writers and depression
FWIW, I've been diagnosed w/ MDD and GAD. I, foolishly, do not take meds. By not doing so inhibits my ability to stay focused, my confidence and my motivation. As well as causes a sh!t load of unforced errors when it comes to my writing.
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Re: Writers and depression
Google mathematicians and mental disorders like depression and you'll find articles posing a correlation between the two. Ditto on scientists. Ditto on those with high IQs in general.
Here's the logic issue -- the stats everyone references depend on people self reporting their symptoms of depression.
Who's more likely to report their depression to professionals? A writer or the guy who mows lawns for a living? An artist or a lifelong waitress? A mathematician or a house painter?
My hunch -- it "appears" that people of higher intelligence and creativity suffer depression at higher rates simply because they're more likely to report it. This highly skews the facts.
Worse, the science community is more likely inspired to find correlations between creativity and mental health because it's more interesting than studying rates of depression among sanitation workers.Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-
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Re: Writers and depression
Originally posted by bjamin View PostElliot Smith.
Kurt Cobain.
David Foster Wallace.
Edger Allen Poe.
Sylvia Plath.
Van Gogh.
Ernest Hemmingway.
*Charles Bukowski
You'll never convince me that depression does not influence creativity for those able to actually funnel it into art. Just like you will never convince me that living a life of suffering/misery and sadness is worth the art that may be inspired from it.
It's tautological to state that mentally ill writers who wrote great work were writers who wrote great work while mentally ill.
And since writing is mental, it's hard to deny some kind of "funneling."
What is easy to deny is that Poe wouldn't have written great work if he weren't a severely depressed dipsomaniac. We don't know that's true. In fact, the opposite might be true. He might have written better and more.
Which would have been something to behold...
I know artists who suffer with mental illness. Most are either recovered or doing better. To a one, they have stated that illness wasn't a motivator. Illness wasn't a creator. Illness was a hindrance. Creativity was almost a form of self-medication to get away from the symptoms, rather than celebrate them.
When we see "mentally ill person" followed by "great art," it's easy to fall prey to post hoc ergo propter hoc thinking.
But the reason we have the phrase post hoc ergo propter hoc is to remind ourselves that it is a fallacy.
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Re: Writers and depression
"post hoc ergo propter hoc"
Are you sure this applies? Isn't it more in regards to: Going to the bank to make a deposit. While you're there, standing in line, the bank gets robbed. Then, when it's all said and over, the dude standing in line behind you says, "this would not have happened if you weren't here."
Odds are Gogh wasn't in the throes of an episode while he was working, but I'd bet he just came out of one. I believe it is all linked together. Light always appears brighter when you've just step out from the darkness.
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Re: Writers and depression
Originally posted by Craig Mazin View PostShall we post a list of writers who weren't mentally ill?
It's tautological to state that mentally ill writers who wrote great work were writers who wrote great work while mentally ill.
And since writing is mental, it's hard to deny some kind of "funneling."
What is easy to deny is that Poe wouldn't have written great work if he weren't a severely depressed dipsomaniac. We don't know that's true. In fact, the opposite might be true. He might have written better and more.
Which would have been something to behold...
I know artists who suffer with mental illness. Most are either recovered or doing better. To a one, they have stated that illness wasn't a motivator. Illness wasn't a creator. Illness was a hindrance. Creativity was almost a form of self-medication to get away from the symptoms, rather than celebrate them.
When we see "mentally ill person" followed by "great art," it's easy to fall prey to post hoc ergo propter hoc thinking.
But the reason we have the phrase post hoc ergo propter hoc is to remind ourselves that it is a fallacy.wry
The rule is the first fifteen pages should enthrall me, but truth is, I'm only giving you about 3-5 pages. ~ Hollywood Script Reader
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Re: Writers and depression
Originally posted by bjamin View PostElliot Smith.
Kurt Cobain.
David Foster Wallace.
Edger Allen Poe.
Sylvia Plath.
Van Gogh.
Ernest Hemmingway.
*Charles Bukowski
You'll never convince me that depression does not influence creativity for those able to actually funnel it into art. Just like you will never convince me that living a life of suffering/misery and sadness is worth the art that may be inspired from it.
You've taken an incredibly small sample (that is entirely anecdotal and self-reporting), ignored the rest and drawn a fallacious conclusion. Kind of like how we know that if you become a politician, you will then cheat on your wife. That logic doesn't work.
My experience is that when people make these kinds of conclusions they are looking to find some sort of meaning or purpose to the struggles and difficulties they experience, a value in what they have had to endure. That's fine unless it stops a person from getting help that may allow them to live a happier life. Life is hard enough as it is, suffering doesn't need to be sought out or prolonged needless. Especially for something as silly as "art."
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Re: Writers and depression
Originally posted by bjamin View PostJust like you will never convince me that living a life of suffering/misery and sadness is worth the art that may be inspired from it.
*Side note:
I'm curious what Shane Black's thoughts on this would be. Or R. Ben Garant.Last edited by bjamin; 02-16-2014, 06:01 PM.
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Re: Writers and depression
It's all circumstantial, a chicken or egg situation. Which came first, creative brilliance or depression?
It depends case by case. Kurt Cobain was mentioned and he grew up a happy, creative child until his parents split. Had that not happened there's every chance he still would have grown up to make music and be happy.
I'm thinking maybe the experiences are what fuel that fire because living with depression certainly doesn't help.
I'm told I was a very happy child until the age of two so it's hard to know if I'd have the creative flair had I stayed happy. I like to think so.
Plenty of happy, normal people have written great work.
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Re: Writers and depression
Vargas Llosa seems like a happy enough writer. Saramago seemed happy too. Cela. Kenzaburo Oé comes across in his interviews as a well-adjusted family man.
Those four won the Nobel Prize of Literature, so I guess their greatness is as objective as it can get.
I could agree that there's something in the pursuit of art that makes it difficult to enjoy a happy life, maybe.
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Re: Writers and depression
Originally posted by bjamin View Post"post hoc ergo propter hoc"
Are you sure this applies? Isn't it more in regards to: Going to the bank to make a deposit. While you're there, standing in line, the bank gets robbed. Then, when it's all said and over, the dude standing in line behind you says, "this would not have happened if you weren't here."
Odds are Gogh wasn't in the throes of an episode while he was working, but I'd bet he just came out of one. I believe it is all linked together. Light always appears brighter when you've just step out from the darkness.
Post ergo propter hoc.
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