What would you do here?

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  • What would you do here?

    Hi guys,

    So a guy on one of my FB filmmakers groups reached out to me regarding one of my projects. He's an actor, mainly, but also produces. From what I could tell, he has dough.

    We had a phone conversation and it seemed to go well. He offered to sign an NDA. I fired one off to him -- a very simple one -- and then I screwed up.

    I was scrolling through my email and (wrongly) thought I saw the returned NDA. So I sent him the material and later, realized my mistake.

    I immediately emailed him, addressed the mistake and politely asked him to forward the NDA. That was days ago. Since, he hasn't answered my follow-up emails, or a recent text. Should I be worried? Any advice? Thanks, in advance.

    BTW, this is a project that was previously optioned, have a director attached, etc.

  • #2
    Re: What would you do here?

    That is a tough one. Probably not tons to worry about especially if you copyrighted it; but it is a little late now if he doesn't send it back. He's got it and without the NDA signed, I'm pretty sure you can't force anything at this point. Just hope for the best if you are truly concerned about getting a signed NDA back. Otherwise, probably not much is going to happen in a nefarious way.
    Will
    Done Deal Pro
    www.donedealpro.com

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    • #3
      Re: What would you do here?

      I wouldn't worry about it at all.

      What could he possibly do? Further, you have a "paper trail" of your email exchange so he'd be a fool to do anything untoward with your material.
      NOTES / COVERAGE
      15,000+ Screenplays
      [email protected]

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      • #4
        Re: What would you do here?

        Originally posted by EvilRbt View Post
        I wouldn't worry about it at all.

        What could he possibly do? Further, you have a "paper trail" of your email exchange so he'd be a fool to do anything untoward with your material.
        i agree with this. i'm mean, why are you worried at all? he can't do anything with it and if he shows it to someone, great. more eyes on it the better.

        but what i can't tell is, is it currently optioned? is the director still attached? or was it optioned and was a director attached.

        if it's optioned you probably shouldn't be sending it to anyone without consent from the person that holds the option.

        but otherwise, don't worry about it. he might be on vacation, he might be working, he might be sick. he might have a problem with his internet like i did a bit ago. could be any number of reasons.

        you're protected under copyright law even if you didn't register the copyright, which you probably did, because it was optioned before, right?
        "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

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        • #5
          Re: What would you do here?

          Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
          i agree with this. i'm mean, why are you worried at all? he can't do anything with it and if he shows it to someone, great. more eyes on it the better.

          but what i can't tell is, is it currently optioned? is the director still attached? or was it optioned and was a director attached.

          if it's optioned you probably shouldn't be sending it to anyone without consent from the person that holds the option.

          but otherwise, don't worry about it. he might be on vacation, he might be working, he might be sick. he might have a problem with his internet like i did a bit ago. could be any number of reasons.

          you're protected under copyright law even if you didn't register the copyright, which you probably did, because it was optioned before, right?
          Hi. Thanks for your comment. It was optioned at one time, but the option ran out and the rights reverted back to me. So there's another paper trail, I guess, with all the emails, then.

          I actually attached the director, who is still interested in being involved.

          The script is out to three other prodcos, too, so we'll see. Just hope he doesn't turn out to be a d!ck.

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          • #6
            Re: What would you do here?

            Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
            you're protected under copyright law even if you didn't register the copyright
            Let me note this just in case, for any and all; and this is something I've been told by lawyers...

            By creating something with artistic value, you own a copyright to that artistic work. Yes. Sure. But, you cannot sue for copyright infringement unless you have officially registered it with the copyright office. And that's really key when you want to recoup your legal fees, get compensated for any damages, and possibly receive profits you didn't get. As I have always been told and understand it, the law requires copyright registration in order to pursue a federal copyright infringement lawsuit, which is generally brought up in a federal court. A lawyer told me the "first" thing a judge asks for when he goes into court is, "Was the material copyrighted?"

            Register your scripts with the US Copyright office to fully cover yourselves. Otherwise don't complain later about it if you don't, then somehow get screwed. Better safe than sorry. Your call, though.
            Last edited by Done Deal Pro; 05-24-2019, 11:56 AM.
            Will
            Done Deal Pro
            www.donedealpro.com

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            • #7
              Re: What would you do here?

              I don't think I'm contradicting you, Will, but I think when they say you can't sue if you haven't registered the copyright it's really "far more difficult to sue and win, if you haven't."

              What my lawyer has told me is that in a successful suit, if you've registered the copyright your legal fees will be covered over and above the statutory damages (which is what they call the cool $$$ that you get rewarded).

              Otherwise, I presume you'd have to pay your attorney out of the latter.

              Lawyers are busy. They want to know they're going to get paid. Proving infringement is already difficult enough, so they'll be far more likely to take on this type of action if they know their fees are legally mandated.

              And from the other side's point of view, you can imagine that if you prove you have a registered copyright, and they know you have a lawyer eager to take on the suit, they'll more likely settle for some good $$$ without a long court battle. This is better for everyone.

              So, not necessary/essential to register, but it's profoundly advantageous.

              It's why I keep "telling" the Guild to drop their near-useless script registration process, and instead refer writers directly to the copyright registration site.

              I'm sure the Guild is thrilled to get in all the money for those script registrations, but they aren't nearly as useful, or as enduring (5 years vs. life+75 years) as a copyright registration: $20 WGA vs. $35 (c). The on-line process is very similar - and you can save a template so the only thing you change are the dates and script title. (And the nice certificate they send you months later is even nicer than the WGA one.)

              Maybe the Guild registration made sense in an olden-tyme, before writers remotely considered publishing their stuff (as I do) before or whether or not they're even option/sold. And certainly, for the writer-for-hire situations, I can't imagine that it's even relevant

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              • #8
                Re: What would you do here?

                Originally posted by Done Deal Pro View Post
                Let me note this just in case, for any and all; and this is something I've been told by lawyers...

                By creating something with artistic value, you own a copyright to that artistic work. Yes. Sure. But, you cannot sue for copyright infringement unless you have officially registered it with the copyright office. And that's really key when you want to recoup your legal fees, get compensated for any damages, and possibly receive profits you didn't get. As I have always been told and understand it, the law requires copyright registration in order to pursue a federal copyright infringement lawsuit, which is generally brought up in a federal court. A lawyer told me the "first" thing a judge asks for when he goes into court is, "Was the material copyrighted?"

                Register your scripts with the US Copyright office to fully cover yourselves. Otherwise don't complain later about it if you don't, then somehow get screwed. Better safe than sorry. Your call, though.
                I forgot to say the the script is WGA registered. It may be copyrighted, as well. I'd actually have to check. Thanks.

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                • #9
                  Re: What would you do here?

                  It is WGA registered and copyrighted, guys.

                  That's the good news. The bad news is, my text to the guy bounced back.

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                  • #10
                    Re: What would you do here?

                    Copyrighting your work is sufficient. I have never nor would I ever ask for anyone to sign a NDA. No offense to the poster or those who disagree, but it's a rookie move. The threat of having work stolen is close enough to zero that worrying about it is the real mistake in a situation like this. Again, just my opinion and I don't mean to upset MargoChanning.

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                    • #11
                      Re: What would you do here?

                      COPYRIGHT AND NDA AND SUCH...

                      I don't remember the last script I registered with WGA or copyrighted... I used to do it all the time... I have scripts I sent to myself via the mail "poor man's copyright" but after time I realized, this is never going to help me and I have too many scripts too worry about.

                      And so much paper trail with emails... I just stopped worrying about like 10 years ago...

                      I mean if it's been optioned, what better proof do you need that you created the work way before this actor ever saw it?

                      NDA -- Unless you're working for a Apple in the 80s or something like it now, I don't see the point of these. It's mostly used by giant corp to keep people from selling intellectual property or by the president to keep us from knowing he is a POS> But guess what -- it all leaks out and it's pointless.

                      For screenwriters, I don't know why one would use that. You gave the script to the guy so he could help you get it made? Doesn't he need to be able to show that to anyone? So I'm confused what the intent was.


                      SENDING STUFF TO PEOPLE YOU DON'T KNOW

                      Now this is the real issue at hand for future reference for you and others. It's scary enough sending stuff out to "real" managers and agents, when half the time we don't know who we are sending stuff too.

                      And then we find those craiglist ads, or facebook ads and people talking themselves up. Or people even on say Done Deal Pro. I mean the guy or gal has 200 posts and says they are a legit producer, what's to lose? Hell the nice girl we meet in nyc at starbucks, she's typing in Final Draft, she has a business cards, she seems legit. You never know. People are full of sh*t. and in creative ones, even more crazy idiots.

                      I'm saying there's always a risk sending material to strangers.

                      Now I don't know what one could do with your script other than put their own name on it, steal the idea, rewrite it and submit it as their own -- or I guess worse make a movie and give you no credit -- but why would anyone do that when they can give the writer like 1 dollar option and make it all legal?

                      So I'm saying, the guy is probably just full of ****. Who the hell knows what he was trying to do.

                      Is he off of facebook too?

                      I'm just confused how you knew of him and how he knew of your project and why he would do this at all...

                      I'm sorry to hear all this, but what I would do would be not to engage anyone like this online again unless they work for a real production company.

                      I want to punch this guy in the face for you, but I don't know why. And I want to shake you and say, please don't do this again. lesson learned.

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                      • #12
                        Re: What would you do here?

                        okay, so i just want to address this because writers get it wrong all the time and it's the one thing that should be understood immediately and completely as you, the writer, are creating intellectual properties that you, the writer, are protected under copyright law.

                        there is no such thing as "copyrighting." there is copyright protection, which is a law that covers any intellectual property once it is in a fixed form. it means that you are the copyright owner of this IP literally the very moment you 'save' the IP in a fixed form as a screenplay, outline, treatment, short story, song, on and on... your work is copyrighted, or protected by copyright law.

                        you "register" your copyright to provide a certified origin date. you do not pay for a copyright it is already your legal right. you are still covered by copyright law the moment you have a completed IP in fixed form, so you do not have to register your copyright, but it does help you should you ever enter a legal battle and have to prove the date of origination. registering your copyright is a convenience. you are not legally bound to register your copyright.

                        registration services, like what the US Copyright Office and the WGAe and WGAw provide is a "logging and warehousing" of the registered copyright. they don't even look at it. they don't read it. they just file it for future use should you, the copyright holder, need to prove an origin date. you are simply paying for a service of convenience.

                        when you sell your spec, you will have to sign something that allows the purchaser to then register themselves as the new copyright holder as you have sold them those rights and it shows a chain of ownership. they will register the script when it's sold. they'll ask you for your WGA or copyright number and they'll register it under their name and be issued a new registration number. from that date on you will no longer be the copyright holder.

                        if you do not understand copyright protection and why you should register your work with either the US Copyright Office or the WGA please, please take 5-10 minutes to learn what you should and need to know as a copyright holder if an intellectual property owner.
                        "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

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                        • #13
                          Re: What would you do here?

                          > they don't even look at it. they don't read it

                          I'm fairly certain they do. My second last copyright was rejected by the U.S. office. I could appeal, they said, but it was $250 more and of course that wasn't going to produce a guaranteed reversal. And the only way they could have possibly known the work was uncopyrightable, for the reason they provided, was if they'd looked at the content of the file I uploaded.

                          As for registering (at $35 or whatever) or not, having that registration makes it far easier to PROVE you own it, and looking forward to a court case is reason enough to raid your wallet for the peace of mind.

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                          • #14
                            Re: What would you do here?

                            Originally posted by NoNeckJoe View Post
                            Copyrighting your work is sufficient. I have never nor would I ever ask for anyone to sign a NDA. No offense to the poster or those who disagree, but it's a rookie move. The threat of having work stolen is close enough to zero that worrying about it is the real mistake in a situation like this. Again, just my opinion and I don't mean to upset MargoChanning.
                            That's just it. I didn't ask him. He offered. HE brought it up. So I figured, why not?

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                            • #15
                              Re: What would you do here?

                              Originally posted by catcon View Post
                              > they don't even look at it. they don't read it

                              I'm fairly certain they do. My second last copyright was rejected by the U.S. office. I could appeal, they said, but it was $250 more and of course that wasn't going to produce a guaranteed reversal. And the only way they could have possibly known the work was uncopyrightable, for the reason they provided, was if they'd looked at the content of the file I uploaded.

                              As for registering (at $35 or whatever) or not, having that registration makes it far easier to PROVE you own it, and looking forward to a court case is reason enough to raid your wallet for the peace of mind.
                              Quoting myself is nonsense, but I figured you might want a further explanation. It's just that I typed this up this morning with only a minute to spare to catch the bus for my Saturday morning grocery shopping so... [And yes, I made the bus! ]

                              For the copyright registration (that was ultimately rejected) I was trying to copyright an anthology script (like Tales of Terror, Tales from the Crypt, etc.) that was comprised of four shorts I'd written, plus a wrap-around story to bring the total up to a tidy 90 pages. I'd not had any luck pitching the first 3 shorts, so figured I'd "compile" them into a feature. This included writing one more short (which I never did pitch to anybody) just to bulk up the feature a little bit.

                              It worked great: I was able to utilize four good-for-almost-nothing shorts, had a good wrap-around story, and now had a fun, full feature to pitch.

                              Scary Stories for a Summer Beach Party

                              But, the U.S. copyright office claimed I was trying to copyright an anthology, which is a no-no. They'd only have been able to know this if they'd looked at the feature file I uploaded, which had "fake book covers" for the shorts at each page where that segment began. The book covers were fake, because I'd never published them to Amazon.com as eBooks, as I do all my stuff, but the (c) office obviously thought I was trying to pass off a four separate registrations as a single one. (I think somebody here on DDPro asked about doing precisely that, to save money, for multiple features - and this is a perfect explanation of the law that forbids it)

                              Anyway, I could argue it, but I sure don't have the $250 appeal fee.

                              And I addressed it another way: I've published the shorts to Amazon separately, in addition to the anthology feature, and obtained publication copyright that way, though of course there's no official registration.

                              The Shorts: The Steve Garry Screenplay Collection

                              I could copyright registration each short, but that'd be 4x$35 and we're still dealing with a lot of money.

                              There likely isn't a chance in hell anybody's going to steal any of my shorts, or the anthology feature, but you see how not registering the copyright gets under my skin.

                              When I get rich, maybe I'll settle things properly. And I can do that, by including the past publication date in the future copyright application. This is the one way you can sort of back-date a copyright application. But for now, what I have is what I have.

                              I hope you enjoyed this little lesson in the vagaries of copyright registrations. It's not all cut-n'-dried, but if you don't goof up it is a pretty simple process, and the most cost effective way to secure your valuable I.P.
                              Last edited by catcon; 05-25-2019, 07:46 AM. Reason: Had more to type, after coming back up from doing my laundry...

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