Red Tails

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  • #31
    Re: Red Tails

    Originally posted by Deion22 View Post
    I don't want to name names. BUT MY GOD there is one white actor whose BOX OFFICE track record is TERRIBLE. But studios keep putting him in roles to star in. It's ridiculous.
    okay, i will b/c i don't feel any retaliation is in order when i say, Nic Cage must really know how to $uck d!ck good... maybe no gag reflex.

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    • #32
      Re: Red Tails

      Funny how the only complaints about race in films come from within the movie industry, and never from people who actually go to see movies.

      Nobody is saying they won't go see Red Tails because the cast is black. They do what they do with every other movie: watch the trailer and say one of three things: "That is going to blow so many balls...", "I might see that.", or "When do tickets go on sale?!".

      Red Tails, frankly, looks dull and ordinary. If the cast was white, I wouldn't pay to see it. If the cast was purple, I wouldn't pay to see it.

      The suits never want to blame themselves for making bad movies. It's always "See? A woman can't star in an action film!" when in reality, Columbiana is no Taken. Not by a long shot.

      The problem is not who you cast. It's what you cast them in.

      You want blacks and women and other minorities to have successful films? Then don't put them in piece of sh!t movies.

      /rocket science

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      • #33
        Re: Red Tails

        so it's the casting director's fault or the writer's fault?

        what if a major studio had a great movie nearly ready to go and they informed the casting agency at the last minute to exchange all the white actors for black actors or latino actors or asian actors lol! yeah, right. they would freak out and think that it was a crazy. but they would do it.

        and what if a major studio announced that a "real" OWA was they wanted a script written for a $100 million project... and btw, it has to be an all-black cast. lol! you know how many writers would jump on that? and how many would think they needed to do research on how to write multiple black characters that didn't all sound the same? ha!

        ha ha ha! i'm just having fun so don't jump on me for spitballin'.

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        • #34
          Re: Red Tails

          Originally posted by NikeeGoddess View Post
          so it's the casting director's fault or the writer's fault?
          Probably neither. It's the fault of whoever decides that they want to use a bad script.

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          • #35
            Re: Red Tails

            It's all a gamble... People don't care about color as much as they use to...

            An exceptional movie with a Black cast will make money. Now getting that movie made certainly will be more difficult than the White version, but getting any movie made is very difficult.

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            • #36
              Re: Red Tails

              Originally posted by BattleDolphinZero View Post
              You think race doesn't play into it?

              I've walked into meetings that started with, "we don't make black movies."
              I do think race plays into it. But I don't think it plays into it (much) in this case.

              The Tuskegee Airmen story's been told; t's a period piece, and it's "corny" and "jingoistic", so it's probably a piece of sh!t from the get-go, whether you've got Tom Cruise in it, or Denzel Washington in it.

              It's a labor of love from George Lucas, and more power to him. But there's more reasons why this film had a hard time being made than "an all-black cast".

              Hell, the movie I want George Lucas to make is the forced sterilization of women, poor and black, in NC. Now that's a subject that needs to reach a mass audience.

              HH

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              • #37
                Re: Red Tails

                .

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                • #38
                  Re: Red Tails

                  Originally posted by Biohazard View Post

                  The problem is not who you cast. It's what you cast them in.

                  You want blacks and women and other minorities to have successful films? Then don't put them in piece of sh!t movies.

                  /rocket science
                  I agree, but if you read Jeff's post you will see that the studios believe otherwise. And the banks that fund them. They believe race is a factor (sometimes).

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                  • #39
                    Re: Red Tails

                    Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
                    ...On the whole, foreign audiences are more interested in seeing white actors than minority actors. You can name exceptions all day, but that's what it is. If you want to call that studio head racist, I won't stop you. I don't agree, fwiw...
                    I don't think it's conscious racism, but I think it's a tacit continuation of 'the good old days' thinking and perpetuation of the myth that blacks are best seen making jokes, singing and dancing. That's their historical place, after all, even in 2012. Why fix it if it ain't broke?

                    Originally posted by falcon18 View Post
                    It's all a gamble... People don't care about color as much as they use to...
                    An exceptional movie with a Black cast will make money.

                    Now getting that movie made certainly will be more difficult than the White version, but getting any movie made is very difficult.
                    Considering the way so many aspects of black culture are appropriated worldwide, I agree with the highlighted statement, which makes it all about the script. Tyler Perry doesn't play well overseas, but Waiting to Exhale did, as did The Color Purple.

                    If the writing was better on the whole, casting could be broader.

                    Re: Red Tails, the trailer looks as exciting as any other war movie, so I'll probably go see it.

                    *Jeez, I didn't hear this much flak over Flags of Our Fathers, another wartime love letter. Oh, but wait... *
                    I'm always right.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Red Tails

                      Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
                      I have sat down with the head of a studio and gone over cast lists to try to get a movie made. He had a dollar figure for what every actor would bring in pre-sales, based on his negotiations with foreign buyers.

                      On the whole, foreign audiences are more interested in seeing white actors than minority actors. You can name exceptions all day, but that's what it is. If you want to call that studio head racist, I won't stop you. I don't agree, fwiw.

                      All I know is that he literally could not make the movie with the minority actors I pitched, because there wouldn't have been enough money to make the movie.
                      Again, this to me is a ridiculous standard. Because it only applies one way. No one ever says PTA's movies don't play overseas because they are white. There are plenty of white stars who do not get a movie made but their race doesn't come into play. Yet when a movie with a predominately black cast is made, the "reason" it doesn't play overseas is because of race. Most films don't play overseas. Most stars don't.

                      There are not many minority stars. Fine. That makes sense. But that has nothing to do with race. African Americans only make up 11-13% of the US population, so there are never going to be that many black stars.

                      Again, it seems crazy to say, "the exceptions are just that...exceptions." They are not exceptions, they are proof that overseas audiences will accept minority actors. If it's about race it is about race. It's not like people don't know Will Smith and Denzel are black. The audience that accepts them isn't saying, "we've got an allotment of slots for black actors and two is the number." I'm hoping the Rock will break through, and then the "exception" will be that "he's not really black."

                      You say foreign audiences are more interested in seeing white casts than minority. Yet they're favorite actor is not white. I'm saying that is the essence of racist thinking: to simultaneously say that race hurts B.O. only when it comes to non-whites. No matter how many movies with white casts bomb, race will never come into play. No matter how many times black leads prove their overseas starpower, they will be 'exceptions.' That sets an insurmountable standard based on races = racism.

                      I am not arguing that there aren't many minority actors who have overseas juice. What I'm saying is that foreign audiences have proven that they will embrace non-white pop icons. I'm saying that if given the same opportunities, a minority actor will have the same value as a white actor overseas. Will Smith, on top of being a star, picked the right movies. His son has already crushed overseas. He will be given opportunities that most black actors don't have and he will be an overseas star. It's that simple.

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                      • #41
                        Re: Red Tails

                        Originally posted by BattleDolphinZero View Post
                        Again, this to me is a ridiculous standard. Because it only applies one way. No one ever says PTA's movies don't play overseas because they are white. There are plenty of white stars who do not get a movie made but their race doesn't come into play. Yet when a movie with a predominately black cast is made, the "reason" it doesn't play overseas is because of race. Most films don't play overseas. Most stars don't.

                        There are not many minority stars. Fine. That makes sense. But that has nothing to do with race. African Americans only make up 11-13% of the US population, so there are never going to be that many black stars.

                        Again, it seems crazy to say, "the exceptions are just that...exceptions." They are not exceptions, they are proof that overseas audiences will accept minority actors. If it's about race it is about race. It's not like people don't know Will Smith and Denzel are black. The audience that accepts them isn't saying, "we've got an allotment of slots for black actors and two is the number." I'm hoping the Rock will break through, and then the "exception" will be that "he's not really black."

                        You say foreign audiences are more interested in seeing white casts than minority. Yet they're favorite actor is not white. I'm saying that is the essence of racist thinking: to simultaneously say that race hurts B.O. only when it comes to non-whites. No matter how many movies with white casts bomb, race will never come into play. No matter how many times black leads prove their overseas starpower, they will be 'exceptions.' That sets an insurmountable standard based on races = racism.

                        I am not arguing that there aren't many minority actors who have overseas juice. What I'm saying is that foreign audiences have proven that they will embrace non-white pop icons. I'm saying that if given the same opportunities, a minority actor will have the same value as a white actor overseas. Will Smith, on top of being a star, picked the right movies. His son has already crushed overseas. He will be given opportunities that most black actors don't have and he will be an overseas star. It's that simple.
                        " I'm hoping the Rock will break through, and then the "exception" will be that "he's not really black."

                        Lol. I'm dying at that quote. Because I know some studio head is going to use it one day.

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                        • #42
                          Re: Red Tails

                          I am having flashbacks to the times when I've had to defend the idea of a female protagonist in an action movie. That's why I'm excited to see TWO female leads in this weekend's big action releases.

                          It's stupid how many people think you just can't sell a movie with women or you just can't sell a movie with black people, but they do, and they hold the purse strings. What we non male whiteys have to hope is that the few films that do get made make lots of money so we can prove over and over enough times that it can be done.

                          Unfortunately next weekend, my mission and your mission are at odds. I'm rooting for Haywire.
                          Chicks Who Script podcast

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                          • #43
                            Re: Red Tails

                            I fear that Haywire is doomed because they've made way too many of those types of movies. Too many Bournes, Colombianas, Taylor Lautner's version, even Taken to some extent. It will do bad because of fatigue (just like Green Zone) but the "reason" will be because it has a female lead.

                            The "exception" is Angelina. And the cycle continues.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Red Tails

                              What I find odd is that other facets of African American culture export well -- rap music, urban droopy pants fashion, dances. Wouldn't the same people who buy these products pay to see films with a black cast?
                              Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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                              • #45
                                Re: Red Tails

                                Originally posted by sc111 View Post
                                What I find odd is that other facets of African American culture export well -- rap music, urban droopy pants fashion, dances. Wouldn't the same people who buy these products pay to see films with a black cast?
                                You would think so...
                                "I was dreamin' when I wrote this, forgive me if it goes astray." - Prince

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