Structure - Example: Star Wars

[Biohazard]

Originally Posted by DaltWisney

Han is inspired by Luke. If not for the guilt trip Luke lays on him at the start of the Death Star mission, Han never would've come back. I don't think it's a deus ex machina at all.

Luke got saved. The conflict was taken out of the protagonist's hands and solved for him by outside forces. DEM or not, it's not a good thing.

[DaltWisney]

Originally Posted by Biohazard

Luke got saved. The conflict was taken out of the protagonist's hands and solved for him by outside forces. DEM or not, it's not a good thing.

I would argue that there's a causal link there between Luke's actions and Han's rescue. Moreover, the conflict isn't over until Luke hits the game winning shot. He does that all on his own, trusting his instincts and completing his arc. Vader is not the main villain of Star Wars. He's a mini-boss. The Death Star is the main villain.

[Biohazard]

Originally Posted by DaltWisney

I would argue that there's a causal link there between Luke's actions and Han's rescue. Moreover, the conflict isn't over until Luke hits the game winning shot. He does that all on his own, trusting his instincts and completing his arc. Vader is not the main villain of Star Wars. He's a mini-boss. The Death Star is the main villain.

I agree, but taking conflict out of the hero's hands when the hero is surely unable to handle it him or herself only to be rescued by an outsider is a spell of good luck, and screenplays should never rely on positive luck for the protagonist, but rather cause and effect. Like you said, Luke did persuade Han to return, so it's not technically deus ex machina. It's hardly even something I would complain about.

You should NEVER take the conflict out of the protagonist's hands. Absolutely never. John Anderton getting released from the halo prison by his wife or whoever that lady was (been a while) in Minority Report is DEM, and it ruins the flow of the story. It also takes me out of the story emotionally because had I been the one in that position, I would never be that fortunate. So I end up envying the hero when I should be rooting for him.

Never put the hero in a situation that he or she cannot get out of on their own. You can do it and make it work, but it is a truly rare thing. Plus, none of us here wrote Star Wars...or anything nearly as good.

[Script a Wish]

Originally Posted by Biohazard

Luke got saved. The conflict was taken out of the protagonist's hands and solved for him by outside forces. DEM or not, it's not a good thing.

Luke got saved by his friend, in the resolution of one of the film's main subplots: There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, it's fine writing. Look at the end of CASABLANCA: Rick got saved by Reneau when he said, "Round up the usual suspects." The protagonist doesn't have to do

I know why you're saying that, though. But the truth is, the film is not about who can shoot Vader off Luke's butt: It's about Luke learning to trust the Force so that he can become a hero and great leader of the Rebellion. Therefore, it's totally okay that his Climax is to destroy the Death Star, with a little help from his friends (who, of course, have their own dramatically fulfilling and thematically complimentary subplots). You wouldn't expect Frodo to do all the work in LoTR, would you? 'Course not. So the problem wouldn't be to figure out how to get Luke to do all the work himself: It would be to figure out how to make the other people doing some of the work satisfying and relevant.

So...

The Crisis Decision happens when Luke pushes the button to turn off his targeting computer.

The Climactic Action/Climax occurs when Luke launches the torpedo and kablooees the sucker.

The rest of the film is Resolution.

[Biohazard]

Originally Posted by Johnny

Please do Empire next!

I can't. Empire has no plot.

[Terrance Mulloy]

Good work, Bio.

Thanks.

[Johnny]

Originally Posted by Biohazard

I can't. Empire has no plot.

It doesn't?

[Biohazard]

Originally Posted by Johnny

It doesn't?

Not really.

Luke trains with Yoda while Han and the others flee from Vader. Two rather unrelated incidents where nobody has a concrete goal.

[Johnny]

Originally Posted by Biohazard

Not really.

Luke trains with Yoda while Han and the others flee from Vader. Two rather unrelated incidents where nobody has a concrete goal.

Running for your life seems like a pretty clear cut goal to me.

[Biohazard]

Originally Posted by Johnny

Running for your life seems like a pretty clear cut goal to me.

Firstly, it's passive. Han and company are not working toward something. They are running away from Vader.

Also, is Luke not the hero of The Empire Strikes Back? And what is his goal...train? How do you know when he's done training?

Take my word for it...ESB has no intrinsic plot. At least none that follows traditional screen story structure. That doesn't mean it's a bad film.