Character arc

[Southern_land]

Does the protag have to have a character arc or can he or she reveal the truth of their character as the movie goes on?

I'm working on an idea where the protag is introduced doing some pretty evil deeds (multiple) but as the story progresses hopefully a more sympathetic view of him is presented even though he's still pursuing the same course. He is a man of black and white perceptions where good is good and bad is bad but he's willing to do a potential great evil to acheive a greater good.

Anyone know of any examples where this has been done before? All the examples I can think of have genuine character arcs, not reveals.

Thanks in advance
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Herbal shop

[NikeeGoddess]

i don't know if you watch damages - but the glenn close character is similar to what you're talking about. she comes off as an evil, manipulative, and powerful b!tch - but she does it for the greater good... class action suits against big industries that poison and steal from the people. after 3 seasons she hasn't changed = no character arc

[Ronaldinho]

First of all, lots of great characters don't arc.

(There are lots of good discussions of this on wordplay. I'd advice you to check them out ... I don't want to repeat everything that's been said there.)

The challenge with the "arc of reveal" is that in a feature we're supposed to identify with the character, and you may have a problem with us identifying with someone who we don't like very much. You might solve this problem by telling the story from the POV of another character, or in other ways, but we're probably not going to enjoy watching a character for 110 minutes of being a scoundrel if that's how long it takes to realize he's really a great guy all along.

[Laura Reyna]

There are many threads on this subject. Use the SEARCH function to find them.

[Biohazard]

Your character has to change somehow. Nobody wants to see a stagnant character for 2 hours.

How does your character change from the beginning to the end? Not 'what do we learn about the character', but what does the character learn about him/herself?

[sumokurt1]

A lot of heroes in westerns don't arc. Does Will Cain arc in high noon? Au contraire, he stays true to his principles as everyone around him reveals their flaws. Clint Eastwood hardly ever arcs in his roles. Think Dirty Harry and The Man With No Name. Granted, Clint Eastwood roles weren't the most sophisticated, but they greatly entertained many people. Even in Unforgiven Clint doesn't arc, just reveals his terrible nature as a killer.

[WritersBlock2010]

Originally Posted by Biohazard

Your character has to change somehow.

The majority of iconic action heroes have no semblance of change, let alone arc.

However, we still root for them... Similar to the thread on sympathetic and likable characters... Because we admire & empathize with parts of them. Those parts are usually the things we wish we could be: Stronger, faster, more attractive, more decisive, braver, etc.

Who wouldn't want to be Rambo and take on a whole army of bad guys oppressing a people?

Who wouldn't want to be Arnie taking on island full of bad guys to get his daughter back?

Who wouldn't want to be Neo with the ability to dodge bullets and take on computer programs at the speed of thought?

Action movies tap into a more primitive aspect to our collective psyche that doesn't require change. In fact, change might be deadly in these circumstances because it means re-evaluating why you (a character) is killing, or instinctively reacting.... When the only way to vanquish the dragon threatening your village and family is to drive a lance through its heart and then chop off its head, no questions asked.

[RogerOThornhill]

I agree with the above that hero characters do not always have to arc...but they can arc in some way that does not interfere with kicking butt.

Indiana Jones 1 & 3 contain arc (changes to belief in God in #1 and makes amends with his estranged father in 3). Compare those to #2 and #4 which seemed to be missing something in comparison to the more acclaimed #1 & #3.

James Bond, Bourne, Spiderman, etc can get away without arc...yet the films where there is an arc can be more interesting.

It has been ages since I've last seen the orignal First Blood (Rambo), but doesn't Stallone move from not wanting any trouble or violence to being left without any option except to fight? Doesn't he struggle with peace/war, submission/violence?

A lot of hero arcs are secondary to the story and often go overlooked, but more often than not they are there. Does the hero go from being a loner to getting the girl in the end? Also look for the wise old sage character to point the hero into the arc by pointing out a flaw.


R.O.T.

[Southern_land]

Hmmm okay interesting answers (bar one ; couldn't find the SEARCH to SEARCH for SEARCH) Thanks.

Nike; Thanks, i don't think we have damages here, I might have to open my firewall and see what accidentally falls through.

Ronaldinho; I'll check out wordplay. This guy starts off as way more than a scoundrel. Because this one going low budget I see the reveal being more like the dance of the seven veils with pieces of his facade dropping as time goes on. I guess that lies at the root of my question, I'm having difficulties with pacing and wanted to see how someone else may have done it. Thanks.

stvnlra, hmmmm .

Biohazard; I'm not sure if the character has to change... I'm thinking of the old billy Joel song... The Stranger

Well we all have a face
That we hide away forever
And we take them out and
Show ourselves
When everyone has gone
Some are satin some are steel
Some are silk and some are leather
They're the faces of the stranger
But we love to try them on

You may never understand
How the stranger is inspired
"But he isn't always evil
And he is not always wrong"

Okay i may be able to push that into a logline

If you're a normal guy in a dangerous position you're going to try to project an image to keep yourself safe. I think (think) that stripping away the fake persona that my protag has constructed is different to a genuine arc... but I could be wrong, it might be exactly the same. The trouble is I need the mask to fall to pieces because it's no longer required, not because of inner tormoil.

sumokurt1; thanks, I'm not a huge western fan but i think there are elements of the gunslinger archtype I can work with. Off to the video store i guess.

WritersBlock2010; your last paragraph taps into what I'm trying for. And sometimes to kill the dragon you need to plant your feet right in its path and be prepared to meet it no matter the danger... you'll even sell your own life "to save the village" The old style greek mythic hero type.

RogerOThornhill: The trouble with the hero characters you've described is they're all modern or have been made modern in recent years (80s, 90s and 00s). They can all see a reward for their actions (excluding Rambo) ie they're heroes and they can't see that ending; they'll get the aclaim, get the girl and despite getting scuffed up by the villian they'll survive. With my guy there's a better than average chance he'll end up portrayed as a lone gunman nut in the media and a 99% chance he'll be dead; in fact he's almost certain that he won't see sunset. He's plotted what he needs to do in the course of a day, he can't afford to deviate but he can afford to let the mask slip to those stuck with him...

Thanks folks, making myself answer your answers has helped me get a better handle on some things and brought some things to the fore. Back to work i guess


mucho goodo
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Iolite Vaporization Temperature

[nic.h]

Maybe the Viggo Mortenson character in Eastern Promises will help you. He's not the protag as such - he shares this role with the Naomi Watts character. But he's definitely a challenging character to like at the start, but we're given hints along the way that some of these actions do not come easily to him. And then we find out why quite late in the piece.

Give it a shot and see if it helps.