Producer Notes vs. Writer Notes

[Kermet Key]

Thanks for the post, Hamboogul. I think it confirms what many of us have suspected. Consider what nathanq said and it makes sense when you remember that Act 3, the last 10-15 min, is the payoff to everything set up in the first 15 min.

[bioprofessor]

Great stuff Hamboogul, thanks!

Someone in another forum recently lamented about the difficulty of coming up with a revolutionary idea; something original, unique that will turn HW on its ear. Based on your five golden rings, wouldn't you agree that the setting could be as mundane as a library, as long a your CHARACTERS and their STORY are unique and "freakin' amazing?" If there's one thing that I've learned by reading the pro feedback in the Advance Script Pages section, it's: Don't write a boring, predictable, story, with cliched dialogue and cookie cutter characters.

Hmmm, let's see... What is the last thing you'd expect to happen in a library?

[Hamboogul]

Originally Posted by BattleDolphinZero

Ham,

those are excellent notes, but make sure that hitting all those points doesn't damage your script. If you feel like you're compromising quality in hitting all 5 of those points, it's okay to leave one out.

They are very good, clear marks to strive for. But sometimes great notes can dazzle a writer into trying to do too much.

Though all 5 are doable in any given script.

I agree with you. I don't know if all 5 can/should be executable within 15 pages. And my managers did say "If it's 20 pages, that's fine, too."

I think we'd both agree that these 5 checkpoints don't conflict with anything we're taught about screenwriting or story structure either.

[F.Scott.Frazier]

Originally Posted by bioprofessor

Hmmm, let's see... What is the last thing you'd expect to happen in a library?

Ghosts.



Wait, damnit!

[Manchester]

Originally Posted by nathanq

producers read your script for the first time minutes, audiences watch a film and judge it based on the last ten minutes.

Thank you.

This doesn't in any way diminish the significance of what Hamboogul wrote. It just highlights what I've long considered a true paradox.

[Hamboogul]

Originally Posted by Manchester

Thank you.

This doesn't in any way diminish the significance of what Hamboogul wrote. It just highlights what I've long considered a true paradox.

No. I'm sorry. This COMPLETELY misses on my point. There's NO PARADOX.

EDIT TO ADD: Can someone smarter than me explain why because I clearly failed.

[habronic]

This is a gem. I've sat here for 20 minutes thinking about it and thinking about great movies that hit all those five beats.

So instead of helping other writers navigate around the iceberg like i thought, i've just been helping them move the deckchairs.

[Manchester]

Originally Posted by Manchester

Thank you.

This doesn't in any way diminish the significance of what Hamboogul wrote. It just highlights what I've long considered a true paradox.

Originally Posted by Hamboogul

No. I'm sorry. This COMPLETELY misses on my point. There's NO PARADOX.

EDIT TO ADD: Can someone smarter than me explain why because I clearly failed.

Well, if you failed, then I failed. I agree with what you wrote about the first 15 pages. I also agree that audiences judge a movie by the last 10 minutes. (No, not always, but often enough.)

Put another way, you can write the best Act II and Act III ever written, more than making up for the deficiencies of pages 1-15, and yet those very deficiencies can keep those last two Acts from ever being read. But if the script is/were read and the movie made, the audience would give it a standing-O at the end.

Someone reading your script can put it down. An audience member in the theater has already paid his/her money and usually hangs around even if Act I sucks.

So, if you failed (and I failed), I would like to know how. In the meantime, seems like a pair of ducks to me. As for why a duck, we can leave that for another time.

[sc111]

Good checklist.

#5 confirms something for me. I felt the intro of my second lead meeting the lead for the first time was - eh. About a week ago a amped it up a bit. It's better but it could probably still be upped another notch.

My page count prob with the future-set script, what would be the first 15 in a present day script is running 3.5 to 4 pages longer due to action lines burned with descriptions of the settings. For example - a beat that usually lands around page 10-12 is landing on page 15/16. It's making me anxious.

[Hamboogul]

Okay, I'll attempt to answer this to show why this isn't about Producers liking first 10 minutes and audience liking last 10 minutes.

The 5 guidelines I've listed do the following:

1) Create a great environment.
2) Create great characters.
3) Create strong POVs.
4) Have those strong POVs clash.
5) Have the audience understand 1, 2, 3, and 4.

That's in the dramaturgical sense. So in this case, the writer wanting to tell the best story is FULLY ALIGNED with a producer/studio head wanting to make the most attractive movie.

This has nothing to do with any awesomeness of the last ten minutes.