Central Dramatic Argument

[SundownInRetreat]

I'd kill for that Pixar document. Can you tell me where it is or do I have to call in MI6?

[nojustice]

It's possible comedy is more inclined to "entertain" an argument rather than present a strong one, and children's material tackles less complex themes.

But I think if you're going to challenge your audience you have to be able to wield your argument like a sword that cuts to the core, and to do that you need to have a level of consciousness with regards to the elements you're working with.

Maybe it depends on whether you want to challenge, or entertain.

[Recreant]

Originally Posted by BattleDolphinZero

There is a Pixar document where they preach this also, "find your theme AFTER you've written the script."

Interesting. This is how I do it too. After I've got the story well fleshed out(not fully written though) I start to dig deeper. I've found a lot of the bones and muscle of the story but what is holding it all together? Why did I come up with this unique blend of ideas and characters? There's something more. Eventually, by using everything I've come up with as a guide, I finally unearth the beating heart of the story. The blood starts to freely flow out to all the parts and my creature comes to life.

At the end of the day it's a lot like watching uncle Frank in Hellraiser come to life. And unfortunately sometimes you just have to club it to death as it cries out for more skin.

[figment]

Originally Posted by Craig Mazin

That's why themes like "crime doesn't pay" are boring, because even though you can argue them, why bother?

Theme doesn't make movies boring, though. A bad idea followed by bad executuion makes movies boring.

"Crime doesn't pay" could easily be a valid theme for The Godfather. In an effort to save his family, Michael Corleone joins their criminal empire, only to lose his own soul = crime doesn't pay.

[magnet360]

I always find that a general contradiction or paradox occurs when you come to the climax / resolution of your theme / CDA.

A general approach to creating a story: First you get a concept -- a guy is trapped in the same day over-and-over (Groundhog Day). Second, you decide on a character to throw into that concept. If the concept is about not changing. A weather man studies change and is a good ironic character to throw into the concept.

A man who studies change (the weather) is trapped in the same day over-and-over. Good.

Third, you would arrive at a theme. As the author what do you want to say about this character trapped in the same day? When you take a side or a position, then that is your theme. I've always thought that the writers "Point of View" about his character trapped in his concept is the theme / CDA. It is generally believed that the writer should have something to say about the theme: make an argument and choose a side.

Here's the contradiction.

A good writer explores both sides of the argument, and it's generally agreed that a quality story will ask a more difficult question that doesn't have an answer.

A more commercial movie will ask a simple question in Act one that the writer already knows the answer too. Then the climax is forced and expositional. The story is weak.

If you take a side in the argument, then you've made a simplistic and weak story. If you don't take a side in the argument, then you really haven't put forth a strong theme.

It seems to be a contradiction when writing the climax.

[JeffLowell]

Originally Posted by Craig Mazin

I didn't say that. Lowell did. And I disagree with him on that.

About six months ago, there was a discussion on theme that brought up Minority Report, so I got this answer from Scott:

Originally Posted by me to Scott Frank

1. What do you think the theme of Minority Report is, if you have an opinion?

2. If you intentionally wrote a theme in, at what point in the writing process did you do it?

Originally Posted by Scott Frank

Theme? I honestly don't know. There are lots of thematic IDEAS (fate vs. free will, etc.), but I don't know that I was writing to anything specific. I was more into motifs on that movie than theme. Especially the idea of eyes, vision, being seen, sight. All of those things are all over the place. The blind drug dealer. The precog asking, "Can you see?" The eyeball nonsense, the eye scans, even the scientist who invented precrime was named Iris. But that was more for my own amusement.

I rarely if ever start with a theme. I usually land on something by accident that seems helpful, then begin rewriting to it. If I start with theme and write to it, you can always see the seams, the thing starts to feel "built."

Though sometimes a thematic idea is just so obvious from the get go, you can't ignore it. I'm writing a movie now about a young Houdini, turn of the century, more immigrants coming to America than ever before, so naturally the theme is "escape." But this one is a big anomaly (for lots of reasons) for me. Normally, it's all a big, giant accident.

I will say that when I adapt, I frequently locate a theme in the novel, but I don't write to it, so much as use it as an editing tool. You know, cut everything that isn't on theme. But even then, I'm very loose about it. Theme can turn something alive into something dead right quick.

[Ire]

Originally Posted by jonpiper

Ire, does "Can man overcome a deadly force of nature?" meet the test of a CDA for Jaws?
If you state it as "man can overcome nature.", it sounds like an argument about a universal theme. But is it central to the story? Does it apply to almost every scene, every line of dialogue, every line of narrative? I don't think it does.

Plus, I don' think man overcomes nature by overcoming his fears. True, he must overcome his fears to face the threats of nature, but that only puts him in the game. If that is your CDA, create a story that argue how man overcomes nature and how he fails to overcome nature.

That's my take on this.

I'd agree I was being too simplistic. It is man versus nature, ultimately, in that movie. Roy Scheider, the guy who's afraid of the water, kills the shark.

"If that is your CDA, create a story that argue how man overcomes nature and how he fails to overcome nature."

I think it's there.

The fails to overcome: 'Savage' Quint succumbs to the shark, and 'scientific' Hooper is lost in battle.

Simplifying, can man prevail over a deadly force of nature? The answer is no until the end. It took the savage, the scientific, the villagers with torches (the knuckleheads throwing TNT into the water, getting through the mayor, the town's bureaucracy etc.

I think it does take several drafts at the minimum before getting to theme for a lot of screenplays.

From the outline to the early drafts we are creating the story universe. Theme is there, but it's not necessarily realized or fully realized. So looking at the matter of the universe, how things are connected, why they're connected, why does the story end this way? Once we look at that universe we can then flesh out the theme.

If we force theme into the story from the beginning then we could end up with a static and possibly boring, "been there, done that" universe.

[iggy]

Originally Posted by JeffLowell

About six months ago, there was a discussion on theme that brought up Minority Report, so I got this answer from Scott:

What board was this posted on? I would like to read it. Thanks!!

[JeffLowell]

http://messageboard.donedealpro.com/...ad.php?t=63186

[emily blake]

Thanks for posting that, Jeff. That was cool.