Managers and Development

[iggy]

John August and Craig Mazin discuss this topic on today's podcast.

Craig seems to say that no reputable management company is operating this way. That contradicts several posts in this thread. Craig also seems to say there are only a few reputable management companies worth signing with.

If no one can name the spec farms, can someone at least name the good ones?

[PerpetuallyBlocked]

Originally Posted by UnequalProductions

What's the point? How about making a sale? What you love to write and what got you into writing isn't necessarily what sells. That's where your manager comes in. Your manager has connections, but they also know what those connections are looking for.

This is a business. Managers are selling a product. If your a brand new writer with little experiene or knowledge of the industry, it's a blessing to get someone who is willing to work with you through treatments and drafts until you have a product that executives and production companies are clamoring to get their hands on.

If that's not the way you work, then don't do it. Go off and write your heartfelt indie. Find a director and pull together funding. There is more than one way to break into this industry. I still don't see anything wrong with this option.

No argument with any of this. Getting my first manager was a huge step for me as a writer, and it was a great learning experience until things went south.

I guess my point is that many writers needlessly burn out on the spec development treadmill instead of facing the fact that their tastes just don't match those of their manager and they're better off bailing; to continue Jeff Lowell's comparison, they're the women who got engaged to the guy who probably should never have proposed in the first place.

[YakMan]

Originally Posted by ChadStrohl

Sounds like there's a new reality show right around the corner.

Considering how many Bachelorskankettes Ben "I Miss My Dog" Flajnik played "Hide the salami" with before getting nookie-stunned by no one has the "Hills Have Eyes" like Courtney -- I'd say that ground has pretty well been trammeled.

[Aspirant]

Originally Posted by UnequalProductions

What's the point? How about making a sale? What you love to write and what got you into writing isn't necessarily what sells. That's where your manager comes in. Your manager has connections, but they also know what those connections are looking for.

This is a business. Managers are selling a product. If your a brand new writer with little experiene or knowledge of the industry, it's a blessing to get someone who is willing to work with you through treatments and drafts until you have a product that executives and production companies are clamoring to get their hands on.

If that's not the way you work, then don't do it. Go off and write your heartfelt indie. Find a director and pull together funding. There is more than one way to break into this industry. I still don't see anything wrong with this option.

Managers have the right to do whatever they think is best for them, of course. But, under the circumstances he described, PB could be forgiven for not feeling like his management situation was a "blessing." And I don't know why it should be assumed that his rejected ideas and treatments were for "heartfelt indies" with no commercial potential. I suppose different managers have different approaches, and perhaps more and more of them are adopting a "spec farm" model. But if a manager signs a writer based on one or more of his scripts, I think the writer ought to be able to take that as an indication the manager believes that (1) the writer is at a high enough level to enter the market, and (2) the writer's script(s) that were the basis of the signing, after some degree of revision and polishing, will be ready to go out. That doesn't mean the manager has to love every idea the writer has, going forward. But I think a good manager will try to be as receptive as possible, and, as Jeff suggested, have some confidence in, and show some enthusiasm for, his clients and their work.

[MrZero]

Originally Posted by JeffLowell

Maybe I'm ignorant on how managers are operating with new writers now, but my understanding was always that they take on people where they'd be proud to show their work around, get them meetings, put them up for jobs, etc.

I've always had the impression that managers are supposed to help writers get their work ready for the marketplace, rather than just tack on a cover sheet. But I'm probably the ignorant one here.

[nojustice]

Originally Posted by UnequalProductions

Managers shouldn't work with writers to get their spec scripts together?

If a manager is working with more than a handful of writers to try to get them ready for the professional level, they're an evil spec farmer?

No, and Yes.

Get them ready? In what way are they getting them ready? How many of these "experiments" have brought in a payday? Any?

I think the chances of succeeding this way are extremely remote.

The way they are "developing" writers is contrary to natural development. Firstly, as pointed out, the relationship is unequal, which means a writer may spec a script that they themselves don't necessarily believe in, or feel strongly about, that's where the demoralization comes into it. That's not how good scripts get written. Secondly, they're guessing at what is commercial, and as discussed in another thread, chasing the commercial trend is not the way to develop. And thirdly, this tact of forcing them to start with a concept, and then mold it into formulaic structure, can leave them dead as a writer at the end of all this.

It's lose lose for the writer.

This is just someone's "bright idea", it's a theory, it's not a reality. Ask these managers for titles of their successes with this method.

[PerpetuallyBlocked]

Originally Posted by Aspirant

Managers have the right to do whatever they think is best for them, of course. But, under the circumstances he described, PB could be forgiven for not feeling like his management situation was a "blessing." And I don't know why it should be assumed that his rejected ideas and treatments were for "heartfelt indies" with no commercial potential. I suppose different managers have different approaches, and perhaps more and more of them are adopting a "spec farm" model. But if a manager signs a writer based on one or more of his scripts, I think the writer ought to be able to take that as an indication the manager believes that (1) the writer is at a high enough level to enter the market, and (2) the writer's script(s) that were the basis of the signing, after some degree of revision and polishing, will be ready to go out. That doesn't mean the manager has to love every idea the writer has, going forward. But I think a good manager will try to be as receptive as possible, and, as Jeff suggested, have some confidence in, and show some enthusiasm for, his clients and their work.

Well said. And you nailed it -- my rejected work was absolutely, intentionally commercially-minded. I signed with this manager based on his response to a spec of mine (which was later bought and produced, albeit after I left the management company); we developed another spec together, he took it out and although it didn't sell, it got me a ton of generals. The trouble began when we started throwing around ideas for the "perfect" follow-up, the slam dunk sale that would take me to the next level. That led to a year-plus of loglines, treatments, abandoned drafts, and relentless second-guessing on my part and his. My contact list withered and died as I dropped off the radar again. My initial excitement gave way to frustration and confusion. It felt like I was working for the company, not with the company. Without compensation. Eventually I realized I needed a clean break and ended our association.

Who knows -- maybe we could have finally found that perfect logline and he could have sold the script for big bucks and my life would be completely different now. But I doubt it, not by that point. Do I want to sell specs? You bet. But not if the trade-off is me desperately trying to please somebody whose gut instinct about the current market could be wrong anyway. But that's just me.

[JeffLowell]

Originally Posted by MrZero

I've always had the impression that managers are supposed to help writers get their work ready for the marketplace, rather than just tack on a cover sheet. But I'm probably the ignorant one here.

Absolutely! And most new writers who sign with a manager will polish an existing script or finish up a spec they're working on...

But to me - and again, maybe I'm out of touch - that's different than "I can't show anything you've done, that excited me and made me represent you in the first place, to the town. Now let's start fresh. Pitch me ideas until I like one, and then rewrite a script until I'm happy, and maybe even then I don't take it out and we start again until you get frustrated and quit."

[nojustice]

Originally Posted by JeffLowell

"I can't show anything you've done, that excited me and made me represent you in the first place, to the town. Now let's start fresh. Pitch me ideas until I like one, and then rewrite a script until I'm happy, and maybe even then I don't take it out and we start again until you get frustrated and quit."

It's a horror story.

[Aspirant]

Originally Posted by nojustice

It's a horror story.

Yeah ... that scenario keeps me awake at night.