Starting the movie with music

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  • #61
    Re: Starting the movie with music

    Originally posted by madworld View Post
    Here are the things that truly matter:

    Clearly-delivered intent, compelling story and developed characters.
    Yes, but I want paint by number, step by step, rule-driven, total success in 20 days or less. What you're mentioning here requires talent ... and work.

    I'm totally bummed now.
    STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

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    • #62
      Re: Starting the movie with music

      Uh-oh. What if the book you are using requires twenty-ONE days to write a screenplay?

      Originally posted by Centos View Post
      Yes, but I want paint by number, step by step, rule-driven, total success in 20 days or less. What you're mentioning here requires talent ... and work.

      I'm totally bummed now.

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: Starting the movie with music

        Originally posted by Joaneasley View Post
        Uh-oh. What if the book you are using requires twenty-ONE days to write a screenplay?
        Seriously? Really? Well -- seriously -- I was being facetious to make a point.

        My apologies for the snarky post -- it looks like I didn't have the wit to understand that you were being facetious. I feel like an idiot -- probably because I am one.

        (Original response greyed out.)
        Last edited by Centos; 10-20-2015, 03:27 PM.
        STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

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        • #64
          Re: Starting the movie with music

          Originally posted by Centos View Post
          Seriously? Really? Well -- seriously -- I was being facetious to make a point.
          I'm guessing Joaneasley was referencing this, which I actually own but haven't read.

          21 days is just waaay too much work for me; I'm still holding out for a bot that'll generate the whole thing for me and then I can just rake in the bucks.

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          • #65
            Re: Starting the movie with music

            Originally posted by omjs View Post
            I'm guessing Joaneasley was referencing this, which I actually own but haven't read.

            21 days is just waaay too much work for me; I'm still holding out for a bot that'll generate the whole thing for me and then I can just rake in the bucks.
            You and me both. I bought a program once -- I think it was called "Screenwriter". I loaded it on my computer and started it... nothing, not a damn thing. Just sat there with the cursor blinking at me. When I bitched about it to everybody I knew, I was told it was a "formatting program" and that I still had to come up with the ideas and type them in.

            What the hell?! That's total bull****! I would have sued the company that made it but that would have been too much effort.

            Can someone just please write a blockbuster screenplay for me, put my name on it and sell it? Is that asking too much? I'll cash the check, if the bank's not too far away.
            "I just couldn't live in a world without me."

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            • #66
              Re: Starting the movie with music

              Relax. Snark is my native tongue.



              Originally posted by Centos View Post
              Seriously? Really? Well -- seriously -- I was being facetious to make a point.

              My apologies for the snarky post -- it looks like I didn't have the wit to understand that you were being facetious. I feel like an idiot -- probably because I am one.

              (Original response greyed out.)

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              • #67
                Re: Starting the movie with music

                Originally posted by StoryWriter View Post
                I would say that's not exactly a blanket condemnation of "music suggestions in a script".
                It sums up this thread quite nicely.

                There are three points of view:

                1) The current reader (the person who made the graphic)
                2) The former reader turned writer (John August)
                3) The writer who has never been a reader (Craig Mazin)

                The current reader calls music in a script a problem. The more specific problem of the writer being egotistical.

                The person who has never been a reader stamps his feet and rails against the notion that anyone can tell the writer what they should be putting in their scripts.

                The person who used to be a reader and is now a writer says no, you really shouldn't be putting music in your scripts (though he has no problem with camera directions).

                So that's two people who have worked as readers indicating it shouldn't be done and one person who hasn't been a reader encouraging writers to do whatever they want. But feel free to interpret that however you'd like. As I'm sure you will.

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                • #68
                  Re: Starting the movie with music

                  It seems that this subject is somehow very important to you.

                  But, in truth, it's completely immaterial.

                  Generally speaking, you write a script in two situations:

                  1) you're hired to do it, and in that situation you know the producer or even the director. It doesn't matter if you put a song in your script, or not. They will call you the next day and say: "Juunit, do you think we really need it? Because we don't have that kind of money," or: "Listen, Stevie wants a number by Wham! in that scene," or they won't say anything and just replace, or keep, the song. So, it doesn't matter.

                  2) You write a script on spec. It's either going to blow somebody's mind and start your career or not. A music suggestion isn't going to change it either way. Nobody will say: "I love it, but the music suggestion tilted the scale somehow into the 'not recommend' pile", or: "That script is a pile of crap, but boy, can Goldmund suggest a right song at a right place! Gimme his number." The property of a script being mind-blowing is so big that presence of music suggestions is completely immaterial. It's not a sum of rules you followed and ones you've broken.

                  Lack of mistakes doesn't equal awesomeness. Awesomeness doesn't equal formal perfection.

                  So, it doesn't matter.
                  Last edited by goldmund; 10-26-2015, 04:25 PM.

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                  • #69
                    Re: Starting the movie with music

                    [quote=juunit;929708]
                    The person who used to be a reader and is now a writer says no, you really shouldn't be putting music in your scripts (though he has no problem with camera directions).
                    What you said earlier in this thread:
                    It is not fine. Not including specific songs is screenwriting 101. If you do include it and do it on the very top of the very first page, you're going to look like somebody who has no clue what they're doing. Many people will simply throw out the script after that. Others will continue reading, but have already made up their mind that your script sucks because you haven't a clue.

                    "Figure it out later," may be the single worst piece of advice you can give a writer. If it isn't figured out in the script, then the script isn't done.

                    And having a specific song in the script for a specific purpose is also an absolutely terrible thing to do. You have no idea if you're going to be able to get the song or not. So if you base part of the script around the song, then don't get it, that whole part of the script that it effected must be redone.

                    This is really horrendous advice to give to somebody.
                    You can flail and dissect and ponder the quantity of angels that can dance on the head of a pin, all you want. You can even try to put words into the mouth of John August, but you haven't come anywhere close to backing up your original claims. Writers who have sold scripts to Hollywood, that were made into movies, have said you are wrong. Doesn't that mean anything to you?

                    And please tell me the name of the company you read for, so I can never send a script to them.

                    "We passed on "The Shawshank Redemption" -- the damn thing was loaded with 'we sees' and 'camera directions' and just look at this:

                    He slides the Mozart album from its sleeve, lays it on the platter, and lowers the tone arm to his favorite cut. The needle HISSES in the groove...and the MUSIC begins, lilting and gorgeous. Andy sinks into Wiley's chair, overcome by its beauty. It is "Deutino: Che soave zeffiretto," a duet sung by Susanna and the Contessa.
                    What the hell made him think he could get away with that?! A specific song in a script? Really!"

                    Yep, "The Shawshank Redemption" was amateur crap alright.


                    "I just couldn't live in a world without me."

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                    • #70
                      Re: Starting the movie with music

                      Originally posted by juunit View Post
                      So that's two people who have worked as readers indicating it shouldn't be done and one person who hasn't been a reader encouraging writers to do whatever they want. But feel free to interpret that however you'd like. As I'm sure you will.
                      And the writer who has "never been a reader" (Craig Mazin) is extremely successful, who doesn't worry about this picayunish crap you think is so important, and tells wannabe writers not to worry about it. Who's advice should I take ... Juunit, who is a reader ... somewhere, or the extremely successful Craig Mazin? Junnit or Mazin? Dilemma, dilemma. It's a tough choice ... but I think I'm going to have to go with Mazin here (and with all the other pros -- whose work actually appears in IMDB -- who've posted in this thread). So close, though.
                      STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

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                      • #71
                        Re: Starting the movie with music

                        Personally, I don't specify specific songs in my screenplays. I've never had the need to advance story or develop character with a song. For that matter, I've never read any screenplay where a specific song enhanced the read for me. Even in the Shawshank example, he could listening to a Doris Day track and it wouldn't make a bit of difference to the story.

                        I would be concerned about readers misinterpreting my reason for a specific choice - as I'm sure most everyone did in my previous post.


                        Originally posted by TwoBrad Bradley View Post
                        Post opens with "What a Fool Believes".

                        You gotta go with your gut.
                        "I am the story itself; its source, its voice, its music."
                        - Clive Barker, Galilee

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                        • #72
                          Re: Starting the movie with music

                          I think this thread should've been put to bed quite a while ago, yeah.

                          I will leave it with this:

                          The reader who made that graphic posted it on Reddit (the link is on the page on John August's site) where they further expounded a bit and answered some questions. After reading through all that, I came away with the distinct impression that the reader in question is a bit of an idiot. But, it doesn't really matter whether they're right or wrong or smart or stupid. It just matters what they measure your script by if they're the one reading it.

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                          • #73
                            Re: Starting the movie with music

                            And I would add that writing to please idiots is not the best strategy for success. YMMV.

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