The good cliche?

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  • The good cliche?

    Can a cliche ever be a helpful little burst of cinematic shorthand that makes your point quickly and supplants a bunch of tedious exposition?

    Someone has a recurring nightmare about something that's bothering them. Someone looks at a photograph and it triggers a long-buried memory. Amping up the background music as the psychological tension builds. Even, yes, the dreaded flashback.

    Or how about costume choices? Consider Collateral. Jamie Foxx, unassuming cabbie and everyman, in his hooded sweatshirt, crummy pants, and dorky glasses. Tom Cruise, professional killer, in his Ray-bans and his Very Best Assassin Suit (which no one seems to remark in the most casual metropolis on earth). Keira Knightley in Pirates of the Caribbean, suffering in her corset and yearning for to be free from social constraints.

    What do you say to indulging in these things from time to time? They get the viewer on familiar ground and telegraph the basics. Use them sparingly and judiciously to set a few things up, NOT as a substitute for drama or an easy out from the hard work of revealing character through conflict.

    Or not?

  • #2
    Re: The good cliche?

    Personally, I would avoid the cliché at all costs. If you imagine the cliché in your head then what would you do thatâ€TMs different to convey the same meaning?


    Case in point about your nightmare sequence: Is there any other way of showing the character suffering from haunting memories without him being asleep in bed? Is there something else he sees apart from a photograph that triggers the flashbacks?


    Itâ€TMs all about brainstorming, really. How would you show this sequence differently to the millions of films that have showed it the same way?


    Iâ€TMm not sure about your examples. Are you saying they are clichéd? I havenâ€TMt seen â€-Collateralâ€TM but how else would a cabbie dress if not unassumingly? Does that make him a cliché because he looks like a cabbie? I think cliché is more to do with what a character says and does than how he dresses, although, to a certain extent, wardrobe can play a part in being cliché.

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    • #3
      Re: The good cliche?

      The problem with cliche is that you are allowing the reader to supplant his or her own meanings and prejudices and bypass your writing altogether. If I were to throw the old nugget, "The hooker with a heart of gold" into my character description, well, the reader is now associating his idea of that hooker to my character, instead of seeing her as an original character, or even worse, he's not seeing her as a character at all. Maybe he's seeing Julia Roberts instead.

      There is an essay by Stephen King posted on the wordplayer website, in which he states something to the effect of: The image begins in the mind of the writer, but ends in the mind of the reader.

      I think the danger of cliche is that it causes the reader to imagine a complete idea, or character, or situation, that already exists in the readers head, and the writer gets shut out.

      That said, I am sure with creative enough writing, anything is possible. It's hard to judge the use of cliche out of context. Without playing on principles of cliche, we would be missing a lot of good satire.

      From my experience, cliche only works as a set-up to be reversed. Such as, you consiously use cliche to evoke a certain idea in the readers head, then play against it.

      My .02
      ------------------------------------------
      "I suffer as always from the fear of putting down the first line. " - John Steinbeck

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      • #4
        Re: The good cliche?

        There is nothing wrong with clichés.

        Clichés become clichés because they represent universal truths that have been and continue to be true.

        It is that truth which makes a cliché work and the reason why clichés are used.

        Clichés are the backbone of every successful movie.



        My .02
        Last edited by Deus Ex Machine; 09-12-2005, 07:18 AM.
        Fortune favors the bold - Virgil

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        • #5
          Re: The good cliche?

          Originally posted by Deus Ex Machine
          There is nothing wrong with clichés.

          Clichés become clichés because they represent universal truths that have been and continue to be true.

          It is that truth which makes a cliché work and the reason why clichés are used.

          Clichés are the backbone of every successful movie.



          My .02
          Would you mind expounding on this subject a little more Deus?

          In my experience, which I admit is limited, cliches in writing tend to get trounced as lazy, bad writing that should be revised out at all costs. When I have attempted to use cliche as satire, it doesn't go well either, it seems. Perhaps that says more about my writing than it does the use of cliche, however.

          To put my money where my mouth is, so to speak, my recent post in the script pages section (see "Opening pages - Help w/ dialogue & flow needed")
          got hammered pretty good, with the reason being cliche.

          Now, of course I understand that my writing isn't at the pro level, and maybe a pro can pull off cliche, but are we talking about cliche at the level of the words on the page, or more the ideas and governing narrative?

          I'd appreciate any examples or insights you might be able to provide.
          ------------------------------------------
          "I suffer as always from the fear of putting down the first line. " - John Steinbeck

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          • #6
            Re: The good cliche?

            Defending clichés on a writers' board gives me a General Custer at Little Bighorn sense of dread, but I've never been afraid of a little scalping so here goes...

            are we talking about cliché at the level of the words on the page, or more the ideas and governing narrative?
            I'm talking about the conceptions for characters, circumstances, events and driving forces behind the narrative.

            I don't think its accurate to define a cliché as anything that has been done before, or done frequently. That is a result of the cliché, it is not the essence of what a cliché is.

            Clichés express an obvious truth of the human experience.

            If your stories do not have truth of the human experience it will be too abstruse for the average audience member.

            By using clichés you use something that makes it easy for the average audience member to comprehend and relate to.

            It is because of this that clichés are used over and over and over since the dawn of story telling.

            It's for that reason I say clichés are necessary constructs for every successful story.

            The negative reaction to stories perceived as being clichéd or containing clichés is not a result of using clichés (the obvious truth) but rather a result of not offering anything else such as the unobvious truth.

            To use an analogy, clichés paint in broad strokes. Broad strokes give a painting its shape and structure creating its dramatic and emotional impact but it is the fine brush work which creates the details that makes it memorable and engaging.

            If your story is lacking the details which express the unobvious truth your story will rightly be condemned as being clichéd.

            Not because it used clichés, but because it only used clichés.

            To give you an example, look at Training Day.

            It's the story of a disillusioned veteran dirty cop and an idealistic young rookie trying to impress his boss. The story's conceit is clichéd from its characters to its plot.

            Why isn't the story criticized for being clichéd?

            Because of the unobvious truth expressed in its details which nuance and shade the clichés making the story more than the sum of its clichés.

            This surprising story with its wonderfully developed and nuanced characters is built on a foundation of clichés a mile deep.

            Look at any movie from American Beauty to Shawshank Redemption and you will see they are built on foundations of clichés.

            I think I hear war drums...

            Last edited by Deus Ex Machine; 09-12-2005, 12:57 PM.
            Fortune favors the bold - Virgil

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            • #7
              Re: The good cliche?

              While I have electricity and I think it might help...

              Over the weekend, I was discussing the script I'm working on with other participants in a small writers group and I was explaining one character, the nemesis of the protag, who has existed pretty much as a cliche. What I realized in discussing the character is that I should reconsider the character not because he is a "cliche" but because his change during the course of the story isn't significant nor does it flip/twist/bend the cliche with which I started. He's boring and the scenes with him and the protag are static because the nemesis reacts exactly as his cliche intends that he acts.
              #writinginaStarbucks #re-thinkingmyexistence #notanotherweaklogline #thinkingwhatwouldWilldo

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              • #8
                Re: The good cliche?

                That's a very interesting argument for the use of cliche. I can't say I've heard that one before. I can't say that I agree with it, at least not yet, as I think I am still trying to wrap my brain around what you are saying and it may take some pondering before I understand fully.

                I'm a slow thinker, I guess!

                When I think of cliche, I view it negatively because I am looking at the end result of it's use, which, by your assertion, really isn't the cliche itself.

                Such as, a "love conquers all" theme may be cliche, but it's in the details of the story which determines its quality? Or, put another way, the well-executed screenplay enforces the cliche - or obvious truth, but does so in a unique and original way? Am I understanding your statement correctly?

                Thanks for taking the time to post the clarification. I'm still not getting it completely, but I think I am getting closer.
                ------------------------------------------
                "I suffer as always from the fear of putting down the first line. " - John Steinbeck

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The good cliche?

                  Such as, a "love conquers all" theme may be cliche, but it's in the details of the story which determines its quality? Or, put another way, the well-executed screenplay enforces the cliche - or obvious truth, but does so in a unique and original way? Am I understanding your statement correctly?


                  That's pretty much it.



                  Boy meets girl, boy loses girl and boy gets girl back is a cliché found in many romantic comedies, including Eternal Sunshine of a Spotless Mind.

                  What makes one romantic comedy "clichéd" and one "original" isn't eschewing the use of clichés, it is in the details that nuance the cliché (the ways in which the clichés are used and presented and the uniqueness of the unobvious truth they express).

                  Star crossed lovers.
                  Hard boiled detectives.
                  Domineering fathers.
                  Corrupt politicians.
                  Hookers with hearts of gold.

                  These are all clichés and can be found in movies that are thought to be clichéd and movies that are not thought to be clichéd.

                  Leaving Las Vegas and Pretty Woman both have the cliché of hookers with hearts of gold. Does that mean the characters are the "same" or the stories are the "same"?

                  Obviously they are very different. That difference is because of the details used to nuance the clichés and express an unobvious truth that is unique to each story and character.
                  Fortune favors the bold - Virgil

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                  • #10
                    Re: The good cliche?

                    Avoiding cliches is cliche. It's been done so often it has become a cliche itself.

                    I agree with Deus, it's all about nuance.

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                    • #11
                      Re: The good cliche?

                      Originally posted by Deus Ex Machine
                      That's pretty much it.

                      What makes one romantic comedy "clichéd" and one "original" isn't eschewing the use of clichés, it is in the details that nuance the cliché (the ways in which the clichés are used and presented and the uniqueness of the unobvious truth they express).
                      I think I get it now. Sticking with the romantic comedy cliche, it's not that he meets the girl, it's how he meets her. Not that he loses her, but how he loses her, and not that he gets her back, but how he gets her back.

                      So while the cliche is still present in the overall structure, it's hidden under strong narrative flow and skilled screenwriting. And the elements of the cliche can even be played with.

                      As in Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, We see him lose the girl, then meet and court the girl, then end up with the girl.


                      This has been educational, appreciate all the insight.
                      ------------------------------------------
                      "I suffer as always from the fear of putting down the first line. " - John Steinbeck

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The good cliche?

                        I'm enjoying the discussion (especially "Avoiding cliche has become a cliche"), but do keep in mind, there are also cliches in technique that don't necessarily represent universal truth; they might just be a means of conveying information that was fresh the first time it was done, but they've been done to death since. I was asking more about that type of cliche. If you want to talk about it, fine, but don't let me stifle the discussion.

                        Carry on!

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