Pick The Right Idea BEFORE You Write One Word

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post

    I'm going to argue against myself - I think there are execution based ideas. Ones that turn into movies that are just so filled with voice that you ignore how small or non-existent or non-commercial the story is.

    But they're usually made for a very low price by a passionate filmmaker with a vision. One of my favorite movies is Welcome To The Dollhouse, written and directed by Todd Solondz. He made it for less than a million bucks, and was partially funded by a friend who believed in him. Juno's another one - the logline of "a girl wrestles whether with whether or not to have an abortion or give her kid up for adoption" doesn't scream commercial. But Cody is just such an amazing writer with such voice that a producer who was already working with her read it, then gave it to a director who was equally taken by her writing.

    But those are absolutely exceptions, and notable because they're so rare. Not having a compelling core idea is putting fifty hurdles in your way. And even Diablo Cody, with all her skill, has made mostly really high concept projects since then - "Juno" was just supposed to be a writing sample so she could get the job adapting her own book for a studio.
    I thought of exceptions, but I feel people will use that to NOT listen to the advice that will help them so I pretended that they don't exist for the sake of the better good.

    Also I don't count the indie films to me that's a different animal entirely than selling a spec work on it's own. Napoloen Dynamite is an almost impossible sell as a spec on paper, but with a short film and a feature spec easier. And of course that's what they used to raise money to make it...

    Juno had a great voice of course -- but to me that's a concept people will read. Especially during that time, Knocked Up was a hit, so why not another one...

    Also this -- Diablo Cody was first approached to write a screenplay by film producer Mason Novick, who had previously landed her a book deal for her memoir, Candy Girl: A Year in the Life of an Unlikely Stripper, after discovering her blog about stripping.[21] He persuaded her to adapt the book for the screen, but suggested that she first write a screenwriting sample to show studios; that sample became Juno.[21

    Comment


    • #17
      Agreed. This is a place geared towards writing scripts, not indie filmmaking. It's a different beast - and certainly one I know little about.

      If you never need to answer the question "what's your script about?" and can still get a movie made, then ignore everything I say.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Bono View Post

        Did The Royal WE steal your lunch money? You use that term a lot. But see I get it -- you are saying I'm saying it's 100% and you are saying it's not. I don't pretend NOT to get it to make a point.

        No Screenwriting Guru babble is "when you write a great script, the industry will find you." Oh, I should write a great spec not a bad one! Thanks 300 dollar online course!!!

        What I'm saying in this thread (and Jeff said in a few threads) is the idea is everything.

        It's proven again and again when writers come on here and no matter how much we help them or not, the concept is the problem from jump. You can't sell a Yugo car. You can sell a BMW. Both cars... The idea matters the most actually...

        If a writer had success with an idea -- then it must have been a good idea... so I don't buy that argument that there are execution based ideas...
        Car analogies?

        My original point challenged the claim that "The Trial" wasn't a concept good enough to be a movie.

        Who is the final arbiter of the "right" idea?

        You make absolute statements like this as if there's a concrete way to determine the "right" idea. There isn't.

        You recently posted that Palm Springs was passed on until someone thought it was "right." These stories have become HW lore: scripts nixed several times until they were sold.

        Interesting that you invoke the name of Jeff Lowell. IIRC, he broke in with a spec on a topic that was generally considered taboo at the time: a comedy about the film industry.

        It was never produced but it launched his career. If memory serves me, I believe he's said that one script got him assignments for years. I'm sure execution was the reason. And by execution I mean voice, POV, and exceptional execution skills.

        How many "right" ideas with mediocre execution have launched a sustainable career for the writer and landed assignments?

        I don't know. Maybe you're correct. Loads of mediocre writers build careers in HW because they once had the "right" spec idea. Though I highly doubt it.

        BTW: Did you ever read The Trial by Kafka? Or, do you assume since it's a novel it must be boring?

        Here's a log:

        A bank clerk is arrested by a secret government agency, put on trial and executed, yet the nature of the crime he committed is never revealed.

        I've noticed a lot of movies and series on Netflix and Amazon that explore similar themes. I wouldn't be surprised if an updated version of The Trial isn't floating around the industry.

        ​​​​​
        Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

        Comment


        • #19
          --
          Last edited by Bono; 05-04-2021, 08:07 PM. Reason: waste of your time

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by DaltWisney View Post
            I rated them by overall quality, not concept. I thought Newsflash was the best script. Definitely not the best concept though.

            A lot of people like the concept for Infinite and that's supposed to come out soon (Mark Wahlberg starring, Antoine Fuqua directing). Power wasn't even my favorite script by Mattson Tomlin on the list, but it was the better concept for sure compared to Brosio, which I had ranked higher.

            I'm going through the 2021 scripts now, and I've added a new column to rate the concept independent of script quality.
            Interesting ratings. Thanks for sharing that. I never did finish When Lightening Strikes. Gonna read Newsflash.

            I do agree that the scripts on the Annual Black List aren't necessarily the "best," but the ones at the top are usually pretty strong. Since the list is a "vote for your favorite" it's an indicator of what the industry peeps who voted prefer. I haven't felt that the writing quality was ever lacking, but there are stronger voices and stronger concepts within the group. It's interesting that there are similar concepts that spring up that are really close to each other.Year before last I think there were three virtual reality specs.

            JL, Juno came immediately to mind when I started reading your post. Great voice.If I'm not mistaken Jennifer's Body was the second script produced but I think she may have written it before Juno. I seem to recall the director being so taken with Juno that he paused his project at the time to work on Juno-- could be wrong, but I think that's right.
            "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by finalact4 View Post

              Interesting ratings. Thanks for sharing that. I never did finish When Lightening Strikes. Gonna read Newsflash.

              I do agree that the scripts on the Annual Black List aren't necessarily the "best," but the ones at the top are usually pretty strong. Since the list is a "vote for your favorite" it's an indicator of what the industry peeps who voted prefer. I haven't felt that the writing quality was ever lacking, but there are stronger voices and stronger concepts within the group. It's interesting that there are similar concepts that spring up that are really close to each other.Year before last I think there were three virtual reality specs.
              You can certainly sense trends in the script population. 2017 was peak Jane Wick time. I think there were at least 4-5 scripts on the Black List about a nigh invincible female assassin carving a swath through infinite henchman, and I didn't love any of them. The Ballerina by Shay Hatten was probably the best of the lot and I think he just did the Zach Snyder Vegas zombie heist movie, Army of the Dead, so I guess it worked out nicely for him. Even though I didn't love The Ballerina, he definitely had a good voice for writing action. That script was a nice showpiece in that sense.

              2019 had a lot of Black Mirror-y stuff involving tech and gadgets. Don't Worry Darling is the marquee name and I believe that's headed for theaters in the near future. I don't want to spoil the twists, but it's basically a more preachy version of a certain Black Mirror episode. I didn't love it, to be honest. Middle of the road for me. I'm looking forward to The Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent and 8-Bit Christmas, which were two from 2019 that I enjoyed. Menu was also interesting.

              I've said this before, but every year The Black List seems to be a mixture of concept scripts, voice scripts, and scripts that manage to do both really well. In terms of landing future assignment work, the voice may do it alone. In terms of actually selling something and getting it made, having that killer concept seems vital. If possible, it seems like you should aim to have both: a great concept executed very well. With a gun to my head, I think the core idea is usually more important than the execution though. I say usually because genius execution can elevate a mediocre premise and horrific execution can still ruin a great idea.


              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Bono View Post


                My question is, do you disagree with me or just have a stick up your ass when anyone says anything is 100%? Because I'm a born skeptic. I also don't believe everything I hear.

                My main issue when we fight (now you will get mad at me for using "we" and "fight" instead of disagree) is I don't think you are being 100% sincere. I think you do know what a good idea is when you see it. And I think you know that The Trial is not A Few Good Men even if it's set in a courtroom.
                I see. I have a stick up my ass and I'm not sincere when I "fight" with you.

                My rule of thumb is any life or career advice that can fit on a billboard and be read at 60 mph is usually BS.

                Your headline fits that description.

                Commanding aspiring writers to not write "one word" until they have the right idea is ludicrous.

                And this guy Jeff Lowell who you say you don't know?

                Hmmm. I believe he's said he doesn't start a new spec till he nails down the logline and runs it by some people. Must be a coincidence that your thread sounds the same?

                BTW: that strategy makes total sense for a PRO like Jeff. His time has a proven monetary value.

                For a non-pro writer? It's a paralyzing strategy. A shortcut to writer's block.
                Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

                Comment


                • #23
                  --
                  Last edited by Bono; 05-04-2021, 08:08 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    By the way it's before you write "one" word in your screenplay. You should write many words to develop ideas and see if they work. In logline form. Prose - treatment/outline form. But make sure the idea works BEOFRE yes you write Fade In on a script document...

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      When you folks are referring to the black list you're talking about the pro lists right? Not the list that consists of work paid to be on the list by the authors?

                      Thanks
                      TRIAL FORUMS


                      Comment


                      • #26
                        2 plus 2 = 4
                        Last edited by Bono; 05-04-2021, 08:09 PM. Reason: I hate my own thread

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by DaltWisney View Post

                          You can certainly sense trends in the script population. 2017 was peak Jane Wick time. I think there were at least 4-5 scripts on the Black List about a nigh invincible female assassin carving a swath through infinite henchman, and I didn't love any of them. The Ballerina by Shay Hatten was probably the best of the lot and I think he just did the Zach Snyder Vegas zombie heist movie, Army of the Dead, so I guess it worked out nicely for him. Even though I didn't love The Ballerina, he definitely had a good voice for writing action. That script was a nice showpiece in that sense.

                          2019 had a lot of Black Mirror-y stuff involving tech and gadgets. Don't Worry Darling is the marquee name and I believe that's headed for theaters in the near future. I don't want to spoil the twists, but it's basically a more preachy version of a certain Black Mirror episode. I didn't love it, to be honest. Middle of the road for me. I'm looking forward to The Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent and 8-Bit Christmas, which were two from 2019 that I enjoyed. Menu was also interesting.

                          I've said this before, but every year The Black List seems to be a mixture of concept scripts, voice scripts, and scripts that manage to do both really well. In terms of landing future assignment work, the voice may do it alone. In terms of actually selling something and getting it made, having that killer concept seems vital. If possible, it seems like you should aim to have both: a great concept executed very well. With a gun to my head, I think the core idea is usually more important than the execution though. I say usually because genius execution can elevate a mediocre premise and horrific execution can still ruin a great idea.

                          Did you ever read Shut In? Or Menu? Both well written and fast to read. Shut In was more believable, imo. Hard to read due to the subject matter. Move On and Field of View were good reads. Predictable, but creative at the same time. Ripple was a nice twisty psychological thriller.

                          "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Mark Somers View Post
                            When you folks are referring to the black list you're talking about the pro lists right? Not the list that consists of work paid to be on the list by the authors?

                            Thanks
                            The Annual Black List is what we're referencing. It's a list of most popular specs in the industry that, by the end of the year, had not yet been produced.

                            The Black List website ai s site where any writer, pro or not can host their script. You pay for reviews in hopes your score will be enough to get you on a list which makes your spec "visible" to the industry.

                            "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by finalact4 View Post

                              The Annual Black List is what we're referencing. It's a list of most popular specs in the industry that, by the end of the year, had not yet been produced.

                              The Black List website ai s site where any writer, pro or not can host their script. You pay for reviews in hopes your score will be enough to get you on a list which makes your spec "visible" to the industry.
                              The one you don't pay for has real value. The one you have to pay for has almost zero. What a surprise!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by sc111 View Post
                                IIRC, he broke in with a spec on a topic that was generally considered taboo at the time: a comedy about the film industry.

                                It was never produced but it launched his career. If memory serves me, I believe he's said that one script got him assignments for years. I'm sure execution was the reason. And by execution I mean voice, POV, and exceptional execution skills.
                                ​​​​​
                                True - and that does happen a lot. People write specs that get them other jobs. (I think the first job my black comedy about the industry got me was rewriting "The Jungle Book." It's a strange world.) But it still had (I think) an interesting, high concept idea at its core: The Player posited that being accused of murder would end a career. My spec was about an agent who took credit for a murder he didn't commit, because it made clients want him to represent them - an agent who would literally kill for them.

                                (Side note that will only interest sc111: the female lead was a screenwriter who wrote under a man's name so she would be taken seriously.)

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X