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  • #16
    Originally posted by Bono View Post
    The main reason pros are pros and some of you are never going to be is the dumbest reason of all -- Fear of Failure. That's it. That's the biggest secret. Some writers have the talent, but are afraid to put themselves out there. Or worse, always wanting to tinker with their scripts or ideas -- never finish anything. Never show anyone. Afraid to share half baked ideas. Afraid of it not being perfect.

    Even the pros get their work rejected all the time. The only difference is they know, that the next person they show their spec too may be the one!

    This Rocky speech to me is a writer/artist taking about being a creative person in Hollywood. And how it's all about never giving up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JAHAFvcr2o
    Oh man I think it’s the total opposite with amateur screenwriters. The certitude with which they believe success is inevitable if only they are given their Fair Shot by an industry that wants to conspire against them is endemic.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Satriales View Post

      Oh man I think it’s the total opposite with amateur screenwriters. The certitude with which they believe success is inevitable if only they are given their Fair Shot by an industry that wants to conspire against them is endemic.
      That's 100% true too. I was talking more to the 3-5 writers on this board (that's my target audience the 1 out of 1000 writers) who are not that and can be the next success story. I haven't given up on writers yet. I should.. but I haven't.

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      • #18
        I would not say I am fearful. I do suffer from self-doubt, as many writers do. But I also have an ego. I think being able to successfully balance these two things so they become almost complementary has helped me.


        You know the old thing about the interview answer "well my biggest weakness is I care too much?" I do think that my crippling self-doubt (which most often manifests as impostor syndrome) makes me very open to collaboration. I rarely dismiss a note out-of-hand and I play well with others even when I disagree. And this comes from a notion of "How dare I?" How dare I, the person who has never seen a French film or doesn't know if the camera is puffed or stuffed, have an opinion on this matter?

        When I first started posting my first scripts on the Blcklst site, I read all of the top scripts. I knew I could write better than all of them even, save for one. So I started out to try to get to that level. That takes a great amount of ego to say that to yourself and a certain amount of self-delusion. Ego is ok, and heck, that is what drives me. I want to be praised for my writing, and I am confident I can outwork most writers. Kept in check, ego is good and it allows me to overcome the self-doubt - the thing where I can never immediately open the notes attachment a producer, director, or even my manager send. I need time to mentally prepare for what I am about to read.

        It is the self-delusion I see in many new writers that is a large impediment to their improvement as a writer.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Satriales View Post
          I would not say I am fearful. I do suffer from self-doubt, as many writers do. But I also have an ego. I think being able to successfully balance these two things so they become almost complementary has helped me.


          You know the old thing about the interview answer "well my biggest weakness is I care too much?" I do think that my crippling self-doubt (which most often manifests as impostor syndrome) makes me very open to collaboration. I rarely dismiss a note out-of-hand and I play well with others even when I disagree. And this comes from a notion of "How dare I?" How dare I, the person who has never seen a French film or doesn't know if the camera is puffed or stuffed, have an opinion on this matter?

          When I first started posting my first scripts on the Blcklst site, I read all of the top scripts. I knew I could write better than all of them even, save for one. So I started out to try to get to that level. That takes a great amount of ego to say that to yourself and a certain amount of self-delusion. Ego is ok, and heck, that is what drives me. I want to be praised for my writing, and I am confident I can outwork most writers. Kept in check, ego is good and it allows me to overcome the self-doubt - the thing where I can never immediately open the notes attachment a producer, director, or even my manager send. I need time to mentally prepare for what I am about to read.

          It is the self-delusion I see in many new writers that is a large impediment to their improvement as a writer.
          Honest and sincere post. I don't think fear of failure is an issue because - when it comes to screenwriting and the huge number of writers seeking so few opportunities -- failure is more likely than not, no?

          Most of us know that going in. We know it's not going to be easy.

          I think you've nailed the core issue: self doubt and imposter syndrome is common for everyone pursuing anything considered creative or "art."

          Pro-actively working to amp up our skills is the solution, as you said.
          Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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          • #20
            The biggest reason why most will never be pro is not because of fear but because of a lack of talent.
            Last edited by SundownInRetreat; 05-03-2021, 04:34 PM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Bono View Post

              Last year during pandemic I lost 50lbs!
              If you're looking for it I got it!

              I've met enough people to scared to even start something creative. Fear of people laughing, fear of failure, I guess even fear of success and having to front their work
              I heard the starting gun


              sigpic

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              • #22
                Originally posted by SundownInRetreat View Post
                The biggest reason why most will never be pro is not because of fear but because of a lack of talent.
                Though true this raises the question: why continue to pursue the goal if one doesn't have the talent to make the finish line?

                Is it the opposite of self doubt? Self delusion?
                Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Bono View Post

                  Mark -- I knew we were bonded in a way I could not explain. Glad you are still here to bitch as well. I wish I got stents, but instead they cut open my chest and the scar is twice as big as my baby penis.
                  I don't think you'd like getting stents they place them by going up your butt.


                  Hey! You might do it in your house, but in this house we don't lick our butts. -- Mother Teresa

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by sc111 View Post

                    Though true this raises the question: why continue to pursue the goal if one doesn't have the talent to make the finish line?

                    Is it the opposite of self doubt? Self delusion?
                    I think it's a multitude of reasons, eg: enjoyment, expressing creativity, doing what they love, hoping they've got the goods, knowing they're good-but-not-quite good enough and just hoping they score that one idea that scoops them a one-time The Cable Guy type payday., and yes, even self-delusion.

                    I think most - if not all - of these reasons are just a byproduct of what it means to be human - after all, why climb Mount Everest? Because it's there. We need something to aim for, to aspire to. I mean, on top of having to be good enough you really need to be in the right location, the right age, have the right interpersonal skills, and the least amount of baggage yet it's not just single, LA twenty-somethings who are trying to break in.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by SundownInRetreat View Post

                      I think it's a multitude of reasons, eg: enjoyment, expressing creativity, doing what they love, hoping they've got the goods, knowing they're good-but-not-quite good enough and just hoping they score that one idea that scoops them a one-time The Cable Guy type payday., and yes, even self-delusion.

                      I think most - if not all - of these reasons are just a byproduct of what it means to be human - after all, why climb Mount Everest? Because it's there. We need something to aim for, to aspire to. I mean, on top of having to be good enough you really need to be in the right location, the right age, have the right interpersonal skills, and the least amount of baggage yet it's not just single, LA twenty-somethings who are trying to break in.
                      That's a comprehensive listing of reasons. However, I'd add another I've come across in different settings: "It's just writing. How hard can it be?" As if anyone with basic literacy skills can write.

                      The first time I heard it was when I was dating the guy who eventually became my ex-husband. Apparently, at some point he told his brother how much I earned as an ad agency writer. And the next time his brother saw me he felt compelled to say: "I'm really shocked you make that much. It's just writing. It can't be that difficult."

                      When I went freelance and had to discuss my rate with potential clients, it reared it's head again. "Why do you charge so much? It's just writing. How hard can it be?"

                      A standout example was a doctor referred by another client (who was his friend). Doc needed me to ghostwrite an article for him to publish and was livid to find his friend willingly paid my rates. "It's just writing. How hard can it be?" He called me more than once to continue debating it -- I was surprised he had so much free time on his hands. Long story short, when I made it clear I wouldn't budge, Doc announced he would write it himself. After three days of struggling, he had his assistant call me and give me the gig at my rate (she was laughing at how hard it was for him to write half a paragraph).

                      I've talked to people who, when they find out I write screenplays, announce, "How hard could it be? I can write a better movie than some of the stuff that comes out." At a party, one guy who proclaimed he could write "better movies" than Hollywood, floated an idea by me. So I said, "Then what happens?" He huffed and puffed then blurted, "I don't know. Doesn't someone else figure that out? The director?" One time someone said to me, "I never realized someone actually writes the dialogue. I always thought the actors just talked."

                      When exceptional screenwriting is undervalued by so many, it's no surprise "aspiring" writers rush in with sub-par work, "It's just writing? How hard can it be?"

                      Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by SundownInRetreat View Post
                        The biggest reason why most will never be pro is not because of fear but because of a lack of talent.
                        I don’t necessarily disagree. I do think that if people without natural ability who are merely smart and competent writers can turn themselves into good writers who could have success at the professional level. But it takes the right kind of practice - not just writing to write and all of a sudden you’ve got five bad screenplays. But writing to get better. And that oftentimes takes guidance from someone who knows what they are doing. And the writer absolutely needs to be able to take coaching.

                        And I think the ability to take the notes and to apply them correctly is in short supply.

                        happy 4th.
                        https://youtu.be/fLrpBLDWyCI

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Satriales View Post

                          ...I do think that if people without natural ability who are merely smart and competent writers can turn themselves into good writers who could have success at the professional level. But it takes the right kind of practice ....
                          Hmm. I need to ponder this. "Merely smart"? Does that include creativity and imagination?
                          Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by sc111 View Post

                            Hmm. I need to ponder this. "Merely smart"? Does that include creativity and imagination?
                            I don’t think there’s any way to quantify any of this. Everyone has a bunch of sh1t dumped in a blender and what comes out is your natural inclination toward writing. I couldn’t begin to try and disentangle all of those elements. I’m not sure anyone can.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Satriales View Post

                              Oh man I think it’s the total opposite with amateur screenwriters. The certitude with which they believe success is inevitable if only they are given their Fair Shot by an industry that wants to conspire against them is endemic.
                              I'd say there are two common supervillain archetypes in the aspirant community:

                              DIARRHEA MAN - "All my **** is incredible. Please enjoy the delightful aroma of the 27 features I completed this year."

                              THE TINKERER - "After 5 years and 87 drafts, I've finally reached the midpoint of my first screenplay."

                              Opposite ends of the spectrum, essentially. Each has its own drawbacks. Sending out sloppy crap that hasn't been vetted is bad. Allowing yourself to be paralyzed by self-doubt is bad. Too much reverence for the business can be a negative thing. Even most working professionals are not geniuses, and you don't need to write the perfect script to get traction.

                              The people I know who have been successful had a steady, critical, and methodical approach. They were not scribe gods descended from the heavens. They were just smart people who applied themselves with a practical outlook on how to get from A to B at each step of their career.

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