The Antagonist's role

[Angeloworx]

Okay, tell me if this will work:

At page 5, Ant. appears harmless, he works with Pro. in the same company. Page 20, He kills Pro's wife. Then he disappears up to midpoint.
From page 20 up to 60, the Pro will find a way to lure him out of hiding, perform the mission at hand, and at midpoint, Ant. hunts Pro. down.
Can you think of a film with this structure? Is it too long to have the antagonist not have direct contact with Protag.?

[Gillyflower Cooms]

Re: The Antagonist's role

I think it depends. If the antagonist vanishes from the story how can that be good? Plus you couldn't get a star to play the part. Do you cut away to see the bad guy in action during the 40 pages? In "Braveheart" the king and Wallace never meet face 2 face but the script keeps cutting back to the king and shows us working his evil.

[whistlelock]

Re: The Antagonist's role

While anything is possible, and has probably been done, I don't think it's a good idea to hide your antagonist from your audience.

Build the tension, show us what he's doing to futher his plans. Raise the stakes against the protagonist. Make him a threat to the life and happiness of the Protagonist.

[Cornelius Pug]

Re: The Antagonist's role

I don't see why it would not work, as long as we can see that the Protag is in confict with the *actions* of the Ant. If he goes away on holiday and does something unrelated to the Ant. actions you are in trouble.

Don't be so fixed on this kind of structure (page 20 inciting incident, page 60 midpoint etc). This area of dramatic structure was first and foremost an *observation* of how some stories are written, not a rule about how they *should* be written.

Cornelius

[argo]

Re: The Antagonist's role

Agree with Cornelius.

A "behind the scenes" antagonist is nothing new. Just make sure his plan is always directly affecting the protag. For example, antag framed the killing of the wife onto protag and disappears (thinking his plan is successful). But protag escapes police and now is on run, trying to figure out the puzzle - why he's framed and who did it. So even though antag isn't there, protag is still battling the antag's plan.

"Plus you couldn't get a star to play the part."

Happens all the time because the antag usually gets a juicy speech near the end to explain everything. But this big star part also ruins the movie - hey why isn't the big star appearing more in this movie...oooh, he must be the villian! Just look at Samuel L. Jackson in Twisted.

[aruna]

Re: The Antagonist's role

My quandary is similar. My ant is VERY evil, and plans diabolical stuff (mass murder). We get to hear about him, and even hear his voice (over a loudspeaker) in Act 1. His presence, and the fear of him, dominates the action. However, he does not himself appear until after the midpoint.
If this is a problem it could be eaily fixed by adding small scenes with him here and there... what do you all think?

[ShaneBlackFan]

Re: The Antagonist's role

My quandary is similar. My ant is VERY evil, and plans diabolical stuff (mass murder). We get to hear about him, and even hear his voice (over a loudspeaker) in Act 1. His presence, and the fear of him, dominates the action. However, he does not himself appear until after the midpoint.
If this is a problem it could be eaily fixed by adding small scenes with him here and there... what do you all think?

Introducing the ant physically at the midway point is an excellent idea but as you've alluded, his presence must be felt before.

[alexhatesmillicents]

Re: The Antagonist's role

I think some people espouse a fundamental misunderstanding of the term 'antagonist.' By definition, an antagonist inhibits the goals, the struggles of the protagonist; their respective desires are in perpetual conflict with each other.

A villain, on the other hand, is just a bad guy. The terms are not synonymous.

It seems to me as though you're writing the part of a villain than an antagonist, especially if you take the character out of the story for a sustained period of time. Personally, I don't find any problem with removing the villain for a portion of the script, but, like I've said, I'd be reluctant to call him an antagonist.

I suppose I'm just a stickler for minutiae.

--SC

[pstudios]

Re: The Antagonist's role

Maybe I misunderstand. Could it be that the char. U have defined as your antag. is really the protag??? If not the I would say that your protag. needs to take back control the the story and needs to be seen in hiding and needs to be on screen more than the antag.

Food 4 thought.
Jennifer