Sweeping generalizations in a life-long process

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  • Sweeping generalizations in a life-long process

    Hello everyone, I'm new to this forum and would really appreciate some advice from the experienced people here.

    The larger question I would like to ask is about creative process and learning curve. I have been a filmmaker for the past 10 years and have written most of my own material. The only formal training in screenwriting I have is from technical books. I have never had a professional writer read any of my material and I'm certain that it shows.

    In the past I have taught myself many different skills on my own watch. This process has proven slow, but successful for my purposes and with focused dedication decent craftsmanship has followed.

    I realize I have little given talent for creative writing, but I have watched my skill improve over the years, yet I feel painfully inadequate by professional standards. This is why I have decided to search out forums and writing groups to light a fire in an attempt to move things forward at a better pace.

    But where to begin?

    So, my question to you is -- what in your experience has proven to be seminal in your own process and development? What has benefited you the most looking back on your path and what advice might you give someone embarking on this familiar journey?

    I know that these questions are sweeping generalizations about a life-long process but I would love to hear about your ideas and experiences.

  • #2
    Re: Sweeping generalizations in a life-long process

    Scott, you're way ahead of the League here. Why you're asking anyone's advice is beyond me.

    Eat more Cheetos!

    Good luck!
    si

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    • #3
      Re: Sweeping generalizations in a life-long process

      Originally posted by scott
      So, my question to you is -- what in your experience has proven to be seminal in your own process and development? What has benefited you the most looking back on your path and what advice might you give someone embarking on this familiar journey?
      What has proved seminal?

      1. Rejection. I mean it. Learn how to send your work out to professionals and have it judged alongside the work of other professionals. The learning curve can be steep and the climb painful, but you learn both how to filter out the constructive criticism ("Character development is weak in act one") from mere wordplay ("Your submission doesn't fit our requirements at this time..."). I wrote twelve novels, one per year, before one was accepted. I wrote many more scripts before I had my first commission. Therefore:

      2. Perseverence. If you give up too quickly, you're not a writer. There's no shame in knowing it. Not everyone can be a writer. Go back through history and look at the truly great writers, and not just screenwriters. Many years passed before their work saw the light of day.

      3. Finding a mentor. I found mine when I was just out of grad school. He was a former professor (and professional writer) who was one of my closest friends and, at times, advisor, for many, many years, and who recently died. He told me, in advance, what the business was going to be like, and encouraged me when I needed it. He also told me when I was wrong. That's even more valuable.

      4. Compromise. Not a bad word at all. Learn what the market's demands are and go halfway to meeting them, while staying true to your vision. This especially applies to screenwriting.

      5. Practice. It's the only way you'll get to Carnegie Hall. Write every day. Commit yourself to spending hours doing it. Make it as natural to you as breathing. I write nine hours a day, seven days a week, some of it spent spitballing with my partner over the phone, which is also writing. And when I'm not writing my subconscious is. I carry a notebook everywhere. And read. If you're a screenwriter, read scripts, read interviews with screenwriters, and read the great novels. Want to write about a woman shunned by her lover? Anna Karenina and Madame Bovary will tell you all you need to know. Why are these (as well as others) great? Because these are fictions that tell us the truth, elegantly.

      6. Honesty. You say you have little talent for creative writing. I have little talent for heart surgery and thus have decided not to become a doctor specializing in this field, as I'd be killing off patients left and right. I'm a passionless athlete, and thus have decided not to play professional baseball. Do you see what I'm getting at? If you have little talent for writing, perhaps there's another field for you to express yourself.

      7. Commitment. Being a professional writer takes time (see my twelve-years comment above). Nothing happens overnight. If you don't have the time--if you can't find the time, then this world isn't for you. Better to know now than in ten years' time.

      8. Developing a thick skin. Getting a bad review or a rejection isn't the end of the world. It's part of being a writer. Vladimir Nabokov's stories were routinely rejected by the New Yorker. He got over it. So will you.

      9. Finish a single project before showing it to anyone else. Writing a page or two and posting it in the Script Pages section isn't much better than taking your first steps as a toddler and having your parents applaud you just before you fall and start crying.

      10. Do what you're doing now: questioning whether this is the right field for you. Wisdom begins with a single question. Clarity comes with the answer.
      Last edited by Jake Schuster; 04-19-2006, 03:35 AM.

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      • #4
        Re: Sweeping generalizations in a life-long process

        what jake said. but with less proper grammar.

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        • #5
          Re: Sweeping generalizations in a life-long process

          Jake, thank you for the comprehensive reply, far beyond what I expected. I just might plaster your words on my wall.

          I think many of us go through phases where we hope to find a magic bullet, stories from our peers as to when the clouds parted and they found themselves on a golden path of discovery. I know its "pie in the sky- and pragmatism is king. Never the less I keep hoping that one morning when I roll out of bed my comprehension, writing, and ability will be transformed.

          Again, thank you Jake. I do enjoy reading your posts. I think it is commendable that someone with your experience has not fallen to cynicism and is continually generous to others.

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          • #6
            Re: Sweeping generalizations in a life-long process

            Thanks, Scott. Happy to be of help to you.

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            • #7
              Re: Sweeping generalizations in a life-long process

              Okay how many people here are SO jealous Jake is my writing partner, please raise your hands? Oooh. Everyone. Right. lol

              Lucky, lucky, lucky, lucky me.

              But yes, what Jake said, Scott. Good luck and it's great to have you here. Your experiences might be dubious here but you know, it's a community.

              Julie Gray



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              • #8
                Re: Sweeping generalizations in a life-long process

                Le Femme Joyeux wrote:

                Your experiences might be dubious here but you know, it's a community.


                I'm a little slow on the draw. -- I don't "get it".

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                • #9
                  Re: Sweeping generalizations in a life-long process

                  I'm equally lucky to have the redhead from L.A. as my partner. I'm just waiting for my enchilada dinner.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Sweeping generalizations in a life-long process

                    And who says metaphor and euphemism are dead.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Sweeping generalizations in a life-long process

                      Now, now, Scott, the reference was to an earlier posting by La Femme.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Sweeping generalizations in a life-long process

                        okey-dokey.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Sweeping generalizations in a life-long process

                          A tremendous post by Jake I'm always questioning myself -- am I good enough? The answer is still no. I don't post pages here because I know I'm not scratching PRO LEVEL but I know what my deficiency is, that's what I'm working on. I don't show anything to anyone until I've finished a draft. I don't tell anyone my stories.

                          It's nearly 2 years since I started proper. I enjoy writing screenplays, I love the process. Of course, there are times when I want to throw out the laptop 'cos I can't figure out how to write the scene. I hate flippancy, I don't want the audience questioning any scene's authenticity -- it drives me nuts when the key plot points don't make sense.

                          One thing I've learned: Love your scripts but don't fall in love with them.
                          "What's worse than being talked about? Not being talked about."

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                          • #14
                            Re: Sweeping generalizations in a life-long process

                            I think I'm going to plaster Jake's words on my wall too. La Femme - I'm seriously jealous. I've read hundreds of writing books, for fiction, screen, plays... whatever. Jake's summary made more sense than all of them. And it was cheaper too! (Not to mention, briefer.)

                            But seriously, 12 novels? I'm up to three - OK, four. (I don't usually admit to the first one.) I got my agent on book two, but she's just now sending out book four, having sold neither of its predecessors. (She sells more books than anyone else in this frigging country. Just not mine. )

                            The first script I wrote, however, has already been more successful. If it hadn't happened, I shudder to think what I would be doing now. I doubt I could give up. Ever. The stories hound me when I sleep if I don't write them when awake. But whether I would dedicate every spare (child-free) moment to the pursuit of publication or production as I do now... Not sure.

                            Hard not to get sick of people asking if I've sold anything when the answer continues to be a terminally optimistic "not yet". Or worse, when they stop asking altogether (which started happening about six months ago).

                            But as Jake said, the talent aspect thing is not something you can disregard. It's only one part of the whole package, but an integral one. IMHO.
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                            • #15
                              Re: Sweeping generalizations in a life-long process

                              Originally posted by ShaneBlackFan
                              One thing I've learned: Love your scripts but don't fall in love with them.
                              Shane brings up an important point. When you write a novel it's effectively like a marriage. You live with those characters and their situations for a long time--a year, maybe more. You have a sense of ownership of the material. You're part of its world as much as it's part of yours.

                              In a screenplay you really are never wed to the material. Sure, you can love your characters and the story, but your involvement with them is never akin to a long-term relationship. To begin with, there's always the risk that the concept won't get past your desk. You can spend eight long months on a script that everyone passes on because the concept is either tired, out of fashion, or just not very interesting. Kind of like showing up at your high-school reunion with your amazing mate whom no one finds as remarkable as you do.

                              It's common especially among writers early in their career: they fall so in love with an idea for a script that they can't let go of it. So they write it and rewrite it and rewrite it and so on and so on, until they can no longer see it for what it is. Until they've lost a sense of its limitations and its various depths. It's become a habit, and they become trapped inside it. And when the love isn't reciprocated all of a sudden... When no one else understands the attraction... Well, we all know what that's like.

                              So it seems to me you have to treat your material as you would someone you meet by chance. You catch each other's eyes across a crowded bar. There's...a spark, maybe? Okay, then, you share a little small talk, find you have things in common. You get the sense that he or she may be involved with someone else, or coming off a bad relationship, so you're unsure of your place in his or her world.

                              You set up a first date. But you don't fall head-over-heels in love. So you stay in control of yourself. No sleepless nights. No waking up in a sweat. No stink of desperation. No drinking and dialing.

                              It's a torturous way of putting it, but I find that if you, say (as my partner and I do), set up three or four premises for possible scripts, toss them around for a bit and see how they land, write up an outline, possible even a short treatment, then your involvement isn't so deep. You can run them by your manager or someone you know in the business. If he responds positively, it's time for that torrid affair; if not, it's time to frequent another bar.

                              Just don't get so glued to an idea that reality can't pry you away from it.


                              Unless you're writing a novel.
                              Last edited by Jake Schuster; 04-20-2006, 04:36 AM.

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