Too Tight

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  • Too Tight

    I've run into a problem with a screenplay I've written. I'd say finished, as I've told the story, start to finish, written Fade Out, yada yada. But the problem is, I think I've kept everything to tight, as it is currently 22 pages short of industry standards.

    Short of putting stuff in, just for the sake of adding filler and it coming out.....boring and useless, what could I include, or what have others done in this situation? I have backstory for the main characters, a clear beginning, middle and end, little fluff and filler as it is....

    Ugh, just frustrated with this right now. Any advice or suggestions would be awesome. Thanks ya'll

  • #2
    Re: Too Tight

    I think the answer depends on whether it's 22 pages short of 120, 22 pages short of 100, or 22 pages short of 90. How long is it?


    Mostly likely, the story isn't a feature appropriate story. Hopefully, it is only not yet a feature appropriate story, and can be revised into shape.

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    • #3
      Re: Too Tight

      I'd take low page count as an indication that there's not enough obstacles, reversals, crocodile pits, etc. Not to be confused with fluff and filler. But you know your own story best.

      -Derek
      My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies.
      Stop reading this and get some writing done instead.

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      • #4
        Re: Too Tight

        Don't think of it as length, think of it as depth. A page count is a good indicator of how developed your characters are, how developed your conflicts are and how much you explored and exploited your concept. If you are significantly under conventional page count it could be an indication that your script is lacking depth. Most people over write. You are in an enviable position to have the room to go back and develop your story and characters to give the story greater depth.
        Fortune favors the bold - Virgil

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        • #5
          Re: Too Tight

          Not that I'm encouraging filler, but sometimes it can work.

          In a thriller I'm writing, I thought it might run short, so I added another body-finding sequence in the middle. It doesn't weave new information or set up another character, but it adds a lot of suspense, and feels like it's supposed to be there.

          In my mind, that's filler disguised as plot.

          Also, depending on your genre, you can always weave in another subplot, provided it has momentum and works into the main plot well.

          If it's a scarier genre, you can lead people down the wrong path for a few pages, then blow it up in their faces.

          What's the genre?
          https://actbreakdown.com

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          • #6
            Re: Too Tight

            I find what the others said and what amandag mentioned, "subplots," really carry me, make my stories fuller and have allowed me to come up with some nice twists.

            Corona
            I love you, Reyna . . .

            Brown-Balled by the Hollywood Clika

            Latino Heart Project's MEXICAN HEART...ATTACK!
            I ain't no punk b1tch...

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            • #7
              Re: Too Tight

              Don't worry. 68 page scripts are coming back in style.

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              • #8
                Re: Too Tight

                It all depends. I've read 80 pages of brilliance and 150 pages of garbage.

                But because I am long in the tooth I could see the 80 pages would run at least 90 minutes because of the scene structure.


                A minute per page is an AVERAGE. But if you want to break in as a new writer, by whatever means it would be a benefit to make the page count within industry standards.

                So long as you hook them they'll keep reading. But too short or too long as far as page count is concerned and you're starting on the back foot.
                http://wasitsomethingiwrote.blogspot.com/

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                • #9
                  Re: Too Tight

                  I'd go back and look at your act 2 - that's the conflict part, where the protagonist is *struggling* against the conflict.

                  Most new writer scripts that I read that are too short (or don't work) have NO act 2. They have an act 1 that sets up the conflict, then an act 3 that resolves the conflict, but the *struggle* part isn't there. This is what Derek is talking about. Make sure you have a struggle that goes back and forth between protagonist and antagonist.

                  Other things I'd look into are the protagonist's *emotional conflict* - this is often tied in to a short act 2, by the way. If you look at THE MATRIX (the good one), Neo has no faith in himself and scene-after-scene puts him in a situation where everyone believes that he's the chosen one... except him. So he fails (due to his emotional conflict) and the plot conflict escalates. Some people think that the emotional conflict is a subplot, I think it's the main plot in a story and the fireballs and explosion part is the real subplot. So - what is your protagonist's emotional journey in the story?

                  And amandag & Deus also have a great suggestion - dig deeper. You never want to paste stuff on from outside your story, but you can expand on what is already in your story, whether it's spending more time on the conflicts between characters or finding another complication for the plot conflict.

                  One of the specs in my stockpile was too linear (and too obvious) so I took a complication from the end of act 2 and moved it to the beginning of act 2 - which meant they had to deal with repercussions from that event as kind of a subplot in act 2. Suddenly a dead guy might really be alive, and maybe he's behind the crime? But what about the people who witnessed his death? Now they must investigate this guy's death as *part of* the investigation of the main crime of the story.

                  Another thing I'd look at is all of your characters - do they have big, juicy scenes? Are they individuals? Are they carrying the theme/story? Take a gander at Brian Cox and Joan Allen. Both are CIA Agents, but each is completely different. Allen is a digger - she'll do anything to uncover the truth behind the Treadstone operations (even if it puts her career in peril). Cox wants to cover everything up - bury the past (and Treadstone) and get on with CIA business. These are two very different approaches to the same job... and they are also the two choices facing Jason Bourne. These two supporting characters are there to support the story - and are different aspects of the big decision Bourne must make in the story. See - he and Marie were hiding out in India, he was covering up his past life as a Treadstone assassin. Trying to get on with his life by burying his past. When the two CIA Agents are killed and the Treadstone files stolen, Bourne can either hide (from his past) or dig (into his past) and discover some more frightening truths about who he was... maybe even who he is. So Allen and Cox *personalities* are part of the story itself, and part of the exploration of Bourne's character. Not something pasted on from the outside - something you've uncovered from the characters and story itself.

                  Hope that stuff helps.

                  PS: Today's Tip is *coincidentally* about making sure you have enough complications:
                  http://www.scriptsecrets.net/tips/tip119.htm

                  - Bill
                  Last edited by wcmartell; 04-27-2006, 05:02 PM.
                  Free Script Tips:
                  http://www.scriptsecrets.net

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                  • #10
                    Re: Too Tight

                    This is the reason why during outlining I estimate how many pages each event takes. Sometimes the estimate is accurate and sometimes it's way off but at least I have some kind of idea how developed the story is before I start to write.

                    This also helps to keep the scenes tight. If you have estimated that something should take 2 pages and it ends up being 4 pages, maybe there is things to cut. Did the scene start too early? Did the scene end too late? Is there useless dialog that doesn't go anywhere?

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                    • #11
                      Re: Too Tight

                      i'd try thinking about layers, not filler. no filler. filler bad. bad filler.

                      i know little, but i'd think about movies you believe really work, and then start taking stuff out of them...seemingly little things that as a writer may not go into that first draft. or second. or third. it's the little things that make the big things work, in my opinion. then think what the story would be like without those seemingly small things.

                      say you were trying to hammer out that first draft of DIE HARD, and your hero McClane is a hotshot detective from LA, and he's sent to the building to investigate a crime and all heck breaks loose, good heavens, and he's soon up to his ears in bad guys, etc.

                      second draft he's not a cop from LA, he's a NYC cop, and he's been called in because he's an expert in the crime that happened in a certain building, etc.

                      third draft the hero is still a cop, but he's now a fish-out-of-water cop in LA to see his estranged wife...and then all hell breaks loose. getting better. stakes. layers. nothing ringing of cliche.

                      and in that draft, you suddenly realize things like he isn't wearing shoes and the building is full of glass, etc, etc. you may realize it when one of the bad guys does.

                      think real people stuff, character stuff, motivations, etc, and layers begin doing whatever layers do. or something like that.

                      give back a pair of shoes in DIE HARD. take an estranged wife out of the story. take out of the story early a semi-retired twinkie-eating local cop who doesn't ever want to fire his gun anymore and just keep the FBI agents and the local brass conflict and the helicopters. nobody will know about the story of the local LA cop and he won't be the sounding board to reveal more of the character of McClane...because you have him getting killed in the first act of the first draft. in that first draft that local cop wasn't much of a character at all...he was just the guy who calls in the cavalry before he stops a bullet.

                      hope a little of that makes some sense. i'm not sure if i agree with it, but good luck.
                      Last edited by AnconRanger; 04-28-2006, 05:06 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Too Tight

                        I'm using Courier 12 pt font.

                        I think I'm going to let this story sit for a bit, and come back to it after a week or so, gain a fresh perspective, so I can see where I can add things and flesh others out. Thank you all, for your advice. Everything makes some sense, and I'll be implementing some different things.

                        From rereading through it, I think the main problem I'm having is not enough subplot. I've kept everything focused on the primary conflict, mainly because I didn't want to end up with some 200 page epic and have to trim half of it out later. Must find the balance...I think that will become my new motto!

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                        • #13
                          Re: Too Tight

                          Write the 200 page epic. Get it down. Then cut it back to 115. Seriously. Just write. Nobody's paying you. Do it for you. Get the best bits and edit. Getting the story back to 115 from 200 will benefit you greatly in as much as ...

                          a] showing that you can do it


                          b] doing it will concentrate your mind on what is actually important in screenwriting.

                          Don't be afraid to to overwrite. It's a first draft. Make sure you know why it is overwritten.
                          http://wasitsomethingiwrote.blogspot.com/

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                          • #14
                            Re: Too Tight

                            Originally posted by boski


                            (oh, yeah--and based on the title, I was REALLY hoping this thread was gonna be about something completely different... Oh, well!)

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                            • #15
                              Re: Too Tight

                              One would have sufficed Qaz. Max.
                              http://wasitsomethingiwrote.blogspot.com/

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