Creating more in depth scenes

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  • Creating more in depth scenes

    i was reading and also was told each scene of your film should have a beginning, middle and an end. is this accurate?

    by having a beginning/middle/end do they really mean inciting incident/big event/resolution? i'm confusing myself i think.

    after watching a few movies i really couldnt tell the beginning/middle/end of every scene. do you practice this basic principle when you write? what good movies have done this well?
    One must be fearless and tenacious when pursuing their dreams. If you don't, regret will be your reward.

    The Fiction Story Room

  • #2
    Re: Creating more in depth scenes

    I take the term "scene" pretty subjectively. A scene is supposed to demonstrate a complete action made by a character, though in some films this is rarely the case.

    A scene sometimes doesn't always just have one scene heading, like INT. ROOM, and the entire scene takes place here. A scene can take place in multiple locations but should all come together to represent a complete action.

    Seeing as it's an action, yes there should be a beginning, middle, and end. Do we see all of these in great length and detail. That's your decision. Generally, to show the complete action is a waste of time, because a lot can be implied.

    The idea of "enter late and leave early" regarding a scene doesn't mean to leave out the beginning, middle or end of a scene but it means to just skip to the actually important part and let the rest be implied.

    That's my understanding of scenes. Make them as short as possible, while still being able to understand it's purpose or action.

    Also, scenes don't have principles like 'inciting incident' or 'catalyst' and what not. Scenes are composed of action or motivation and conflict. The most important thing is that all scenes should have conflict, whether literal or implied.

    I can't think of any movies with good scenes though - most good movies have good scenes, that's usually the case

    I don't know if I contributed anything helpful
    Smile Is Best Makeup!

    -A Grammatically Incorrect Japanese Proverb

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    • #3
      Re: Creating more in depth scenes

      Originally posted by Juno Styles
      what good movies have done this well?
      All of them.

      Unity is important but more so is the need for every scene to alter the status of the story and/or character in order for every scene to drive the story forward, which produces a different kind of dramatic causation unity.


      Re: Beginning, middle and end structure of scenes:


      Consider the scene in Sixth Sense where Malcolm is in Cole's living room and wants Cole to sit and talk to him. (one of the best constructed and written scenes I've read)

      BEGINNING

      Cole is at the doorway, not wanting to talk to Malcolm.

      The scene is driven by Malcolm's goal of getting Cole to talk to him.

      Malcolm convinces Cole to play a "game" in order to get Cole to talk to him.

      MIDDLE

      Malcolm makes some "guesses" about Cole's past.

      With each right answer Cole moves closer to the chair. The scene gives us a very clear visual mark for Malcolm's goal and with each step Cole takes Malcolm is closer to achieving his goal for the scene.

      MID POINT

      Then things go bad. Malcolm starts to guess wrong.

      Cole takes steps away from the chair, putting Malcolm's ability to achieve his goal for the scene in doubt.

      The action has had a reversal.

      Each wrong answer not only tells us Malcolm can not achieve his goal, it also highlights how Malcolm doesn't understand his patient - which puts the larger goal - the MDQ of Malcolm's ability to help Cole in doubt.

      END

      Cole reaches the threshold.

      Malcolm has failed to achieve his goal for the scene. Cole doesn't believe Malcolm can help him. Cole will not open up to Malcolm which puts Malcolm's ability to achieve the larger MDQ in doubt, changing the status of the story and characters.

      Make sense?

      Last edited by Deus Ex Machine; 07-17-2006, 12:33 PM.
      Fortune favors the bold - Virgil

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      • #4
        Re: Creating more in depth scenes

        Originally posted by Deus Ex Machine
        All of them.

        Unity is important but more so is the need for every scene to alter the status of the story and/or character in order for every scene to drive the story forward, which produces a different kind of dramatic causation unity.


        Re: Beginning, middle and end structure of scenes:


        Consider the scene in Sixth Sense where Malcolm is in Cole's living room and wants Cole to sit and talk to him. (one of the best constructed and written scenes I've read)

        BEGINNING

        Cole is at the doorway, not wanting to talk to Malcolm.

        The scene is driven by Malcolm's goal of getting Cole to talk to him.

        Malcolm convinces Cole to play a "game" in order to get Cole to talk to him.

        MIDDLE

        Malcolm makes some "guesses" about Cole's past.

        With each right answer Cole moves closer to the chair. The scene gives us a very clear visual mark for Malcolm's goal and with each step Cole takes Malcolm is closer to achieving his goal for the scene.

        MID POINT

        Then things go bad. Malcolm starts to guess wrong.

        Cole takes steps away from the chair, putting Malcolm's ability to achieve his goal for the scene in doubt.

        The action has had a reversal.

        Each wrong answer not only tells us Malcolm can not achieve his goal, it also highlights how Malcolm doesn't understand his patient - which puts the larger goal - the MDQ of Malcolm's ability to help Cole in doubt.

        END

        Cole reaches the threshold.

        Malcolm has failed to achieve his goal for the scene. Cole doesn't believe Malcolm can help him. Cole will not open up to Malcolm which puts his ability to achieve the larger MDQ in doubt, changing the status of the story and characters.

        Make sense?

        Deus is good.
        Smile Is Best Makeup!

        -A Grammatically Incorrect Japanese Proverb

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        • #5
          Re: Creating more in depth scenes

          Originally posted by Stephen Wegmann
          Deus is good.
          Deus is god.
          "This is insane, he has space dimentia" - a line from Armageddon

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          • #6
            Re: Creating more in depth scenes

            Originally posted by Deus Ex Machine
            Make sense?
            yes, thanx a lot deus. crystal clear. that was a very good example, but do you feel 'every scene' in the sixth sense had a clear beginning/middle/end such as the example you have given?
            One must be fearless and tenacious when pursuing their dreams. If you don't, regret will be your reward.

            The Fiction Story Room

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            • #7
              Re: Creating more in depth scenes

              Originally posted by Big Adam
              Deus is god.
              LMAO...i'm starting to think he's a computer program.
              One must be fearless and tenacious when pursuing their dreams. If you don't, regret will be your reward.

              The Fiction Story Room

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Creating more in depth scenes

                Originally posted by Juno Styles
                do you feel 'every scene' in the sixth sense had a clear beginning/middle/end such as the example you have given?
                Most do.

                Fortune favors the bold - Virgil

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                • #9
                  Re: Creating more in depth scenes

                  Originally posted by Deus Ex Machine
                  Most do.

                  Thanks for the example D. Nice job. Now I need to go back and uravel a few scenes of work in progress. Sh!t. Things just got harder.

                  A

                  Life is short. Stay awake.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Creating more in depth scenes

                    Deus comes through once again with an example and theory to back it up. Excellent work.

                    But - true story - I was sitting on the can at work last week thinking that I should go through the recently-completed draft of my latest screenplay and think each scene through in this manner.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Creating more in depth scenes

                      Question regarding this...

                      Say I cut back and forth between two seperate sets of characters?

                      Simple example:

                      character 1 - gets ready for work, goes to work, gets to work.
                      character 2 - decides to get food, makes the food, eats the food.

                      I know both those, well depends actually, are boring and simply, but it's just an example.

                      Now, say you continued to cut back and forth between the scenes. So, like you went beginning 1, beginning 2, middle 1, middle 2, end 1, end 2.

                      Would that work? I seem to be thinking of my scenes in a broader sense (since each has multiple sluglines) and I feel like each seperate lil scene doesn't exactly have a clearcut beginnin, middle, end. Should they all have them? Or no? I'm just kinda goin with what works with the characters and what they are trying to accomplish from point A to B (even tho that involves multi slugs) and it works better when I cut back and forth.

                      Is that ok? Just curious...

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                      • #12
                        Re: Creating more in depth scenes

                        Think of it as 'Raise a piont' 'Turn the point' 'Establish new point'.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Creating more in depth scenes

                          Originally posted by Deus Ex Machine
                          Malcolm has failed to achieve his goal for the scene. Cole doesn't believe Malcolm can help him. Cole will not open up to Malcolm which puts Malcolm's ability to achieve the larger MDQ in doubt, changing the status of the story and characters.
                          I agree it's a very good scene.

                          Consider for a moment this scene did not have an "ending-. We don't know for sure if Malcolm was successful. The scene ends before he gives it another try or, in defeat, walks out the door.

                          Now consider the very next scene where Malcolm meets his wife at the restaurant. The first thing he talks about is his frustration about how things didn't go well with Cole. Isn't this where the previous scene ends? If we knew how things ended in the previous scene would Malcolm need to repeat it now?
                          "I am the story itself; its source, its voice, its music."
                          - Clive Barker, Galilee

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