Really, it's about plot...

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  • Really, it's about plot...

    The question, that is! No confusing this thread with the one debating character vs. plot, please.

    I've seen others mention the book SAVE THE CAT! by Blake Snyder. I'm about halfway through it and I got to the part about beats, and he says the Catalyst goes on page 12, but specifically page 12, so just put it on page 12. "Page 12 - Catalyst. Do it." That kind of put me off a little bit (that plus a little caption that calls MEMENTO - the movie that sparked my interest in screenwriting - a gimmick or really dull movie).

    What do you all think about the whole "this beat has to happen on this page" idea? I understand it's about pacing, but isn't that a little too inorganic?

    "We're all immigrants now, man."
    - Zia (Patrick Fugit), "Wristcutters: A Love Story"

  • #2
    Re: Really, it's about plot...

    IMO the Inciting Incident should occur no later than page 15 for new writers trying to break in with a spec script.

    Personally, I want a hook and an Inciting Incident to occur before page 11. This is not because I am anal about important beat placements, rather because I know how hard it is to please a reader or executive and you really need to get the ball moving as quickly as possible and keep them in the palm of your hand until FADE OUT...
    I wanna tell you about the time I almost died....

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    • #3
      Re: Really, it's about plot...

      Page 12 is a great place for a Catalyst. So's page 13, 14, and I bet if it happened on 11, it would be okay, too.

      That's the problem with some of these books - they give very canned advice.

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      • #4
        Re: Really, it's about plot...

        I spent an afternoon speaking with him in Jan. I was lucky I had the chance, he's really a very sharp person. And, he's hilarious. I'm sure it's his sense of humor, however misplaced.

        If it doesn't ring true to you, it's usually not. I'm certain no one will give you a demerit if you miss a target by a page or three.

        Especially Blake.

        I know what he says in the book. I'm fairly certain it's just his wit coming through. If I explain why, it'll be a gender-sexual preference-stereo type arguement in no time flat.

        He'd be the first to laugh about it. We should too.

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        • #5
          Re: Really, it's about plot...

          Yeah I read that too and took it in the vein it was intended, he's telling the perhaps inexperienced writer that there MUST BE a catalyst, and page 12 is ideal, don't forget now!

          -Derek
          My Web Page - shameless vampyre fiction & other shameless writings.
          Take the critiques you get with a grain of salt. Invariably, some of the critics will be kooks, bitter curmudgeons, or complete fools. ~odocoileus

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          • #6
            Re: Really, it's about plot...

            And I think that as you practice writing more and more- placing the Catalyst/PoA/Whatever where ever you think it belongs- you'll find that it kinda ends up in the neighborhood of page 12 an awful lot.

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            • #7
              Re: Really, it's about plot...

              I haven't read this Save the Cat book, but I've now seen a few posts by people puzzled by things it has to say. And I have to ask: Is it possible this book is actually some kind of subtle parody of screenwriting books?

              Because damn.

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              • #8
                Re: Really, it's about plot...

                I never read that book, but what I read in what he's saying is 'get to it'. Get hings moving and put your story in motion, because he knows most amateur writers will meander and find themselves on page 30 with really nothing happening yet.

                And He's right.

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                • #9
                  Re: Really, it's about STRUCTURE ...

                  Or maybe what Snyder is really saying ... just maybe ... is to put the catalyst on page 12.

                  This, of course, depends on first spending the right amount of time introducing the characters and the world they live in without testing the audience's patience.

                  Then spending the right of time between the catalyst and the end of Act I without ... come on, say it ... all together now ... testing the audience's patience.

                  I'm sure Snyder knows the catalyst appears at different times in different movies. I'm sure he knows some movies are better than other movies.
                  "I am the story itself; its source, its voice, its music."
                  - Clive Barker, Galilee

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                  • #10
                    Re: Really, it's about plot...

                    Originally posted by velysai
                    The question, that is! No confusing this thread with the one debating character vs. plot, please.

                    I've seen others mention the book SAVE THE CAT! by Blake Snyder. I'm about halfway through it and I got to the part about beats, and he says the Catalyst goes on page 12, but specifically page 12, so just put it on page 12. "Page 12 - Catalyst. Do it." That kind of put me off a little bit (that plus a little caption that calls MEMENTO - the movie that sparked my interest in screenwriting - a gimmick or really dull movie).

                    What do you all think about the whole "this beat has to happen on this page" idea? I understand it's about pacing, but isn't that a little too inorganic?
                    I can tell he is messing around just by reading your post.

                    I've read the book he also says nothing is written in stone.
                    Faster would be better! ~ Capt. Malcolm Reynolds

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                    • #11
                      Re: Really, it's about plot...

                      I don't think he was kidding about Memento being dull, though.

                      "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Really, it's about plot...

                        No, he was probably serious about that. Which makes his opinions doubly dubious in my book.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Really, it's about plot...

                          It's a guide to writing cookie-cutter four quadrant mainstream movies. There's still some interesting stuff in there.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Really, it's about plot...

                            Originally posted by Cyfress
                            ...And He's right.
                            You must really worship the guy.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Really, it's about plot...

                              For more of that Blake Snyder wisdom, here is his blog.

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