Is Passive a good form?

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  • Is Passive a good form?

    I have this set of dialogue which I am writing which consist of being too passive... does it matter in scripts if dialogue is 'passive' not to write it as such. For example; I have two character talking.

    One said, "Alyson was famously known as the deadliest pirate in the seven seas. She had a nickname, Tia Doña. A true legend ...she'd killed her paramours while they were still asleep!"

    Now, according to the grammar rules, Alyson was famously known... is too passive? Would anyone agree?
    D. Alin
    http://alinproduction.blogspot.com Sci-Fi/Fantasy (Basically) [Skype me at "Buyitpc" - I will surely love to talk!]

  • #2
    Re: Is Passive a good form?

    That's not passive, that's descriptive. "was renowned" might be a bit leaner. Passive is when there's no subject in a sentence, just an object. It isn't the same as using variations of the verb "to be" (is, was, will be). Huge difference.

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    • #3
      Re: Is Passive a good form?

      Originally posted by Pull Back Reveal View Post
      That's not passive, that's descriptive. "was renowned" might be a bit leaner. Passive is when there's no subject in a sentence, just an object. It isn't the same as using variations of the verb "to be" (is, was, will be). Huge difference.
      Okay, interesting... because in my grammar check, it states that the words were too passive voice. So, I needed to know if the rules were alright. Just wanted to make sure. Guess I need to figure out how to tweak 'Word' to know the difference.

      Thanks!
      D. Alin
      http://alinproduction.blogspot.com Sci-Fi/Fantasy (Basically) [Skype me at "Buyitpc" - I will surely love to talk!]

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Is Passive a good form?

        Take two.

        If you're worried about too many auxiliary verbs in that particular line, you could be more direct:

        Legendary as the deadliest pirate of the seven seas, Tia Doña killed her paramours as they slept.

        We should already know that Alyson is the subject. Famously known and true legend are a bit redundant, but if you're trying to drive the point home, the repetition is OK. Just state the legend as fact, don't need to qualify it. Unless she's a mermaid, probably pirate "of" the seas, not "in" the seas.

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        • #5
          Re: Is Passive a good form?

          Originally posted by David Alin View Post
          Guess I need to figure out how to tweak 'Word' to know the difference.
          NEVER rely on Word for grammar checks, especially in dialogue, which will often be ungrammatical. (Unless you're writing an industrial or trade script.) It's the crudest of tools. Run it to catch problems you've missed (double words, you're instead of your, perhaps), but don't treat it as gospel.

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          • #6
            Re: Is Passive a good form?

            Originally posted by Pull Back Reveal View Post
            NEVER rely on Word for grammar checks, especially in dialogue, which will often be ungrammatical. (Unless you're writing an industrial or trade script.) It's the crudest of tools. Run it to catch problems you've missed (double words, you're instead of your, perhaps), but don't treat it as gospel.
            That's what I figured, just wanted to make sure about the passive. Most things for the dialogue I have ignored. Like, contractions...

            Thanks... (Did I spell contractions right? LOL)
            D. Alin
            http://alinproduction.blogspot.com Sci-Fi/Fantasy (Basically) [Skype me at "Buyitpc" - I will surely love to talk!]

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Is Passive a good form?

              One said, "Alyson was famously known as the deadliest pirate in the seven seas. She had a nickname, Tia Doña. A true legend ...she'd killed her paramours while they were still asleep!"
              The verb is in passive voice. It is not grammatically incorrect. In most instances the passive voice is weak compared to the active voice. However, that is not always the case, and your quotation is a good example of effective use of the passive voice.

              Poor use of the passive occurs in sentences like:

              The light is turn on by Bob.

              instead of the active-voice form:

              Bob turns on the light.

              Do not trust grammar checks.

              "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

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              • #8
                Re: Is Passive a good form?

                You can almost always remove weak "to be" verbs (am, is are, was, were, be, being, been, etc.) by rewriting the sentence. That often also has the effect of tightening things up, too.

                Like you could change it to "Famously known as the deadliest pirate in the seven seas, she had a nickname: Tia Dona."

                Or even "Her reputation as the deadliest pirate in the seven seas led to her nickname: Tia Dona."

                (but with the squiggly thing over the n like you wrote it. )


                (What does Tia Dona mean, anyhow? Aunt...something? What's the connection between the nickname and her reputation for deadliness? Was it ironic, like calling a bald guy "Curly"?)

                Censorship reflects a society's lack of confidence in itself.
                It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime.
                -- Potter Stewart

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                • #9
                  Re: Is Passive a good form?

                  Or just lose the word famously, as it is a mouthful and trips up the rhythm.


                  Try ...

                  Most feared Pirate on the seven seas, she was.
                  (a beat)
                  The Doña they called her.


                  Leave off Tia. In Spain, Doña was a name reserved for women of high rank or respect. Nobilty would use it, which is a great ''persona'' for the character.

                  Tia kills it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Is Passive a good form?

                    Originally posted by alex whitmer View Post
                    Or just lose the word famously, as it is a mouthful and trips up the rhythm.


                    Try ...

                    Most feared Pirate on the seven seas, she was.
                    (a beat)
                    The Doña they called her.


                    Leave off Tia. In Spain, Doña was a name reserved for women of high rank or respect. Nobilty would use it, which is a great ''persona'' for the character.

                    Tia kills it.
                    So, the Hispanic version states it's Tia, but the Spanish is Dona? Got ya. However, the true question on the post is about it being passive... and correct to my thoughts. It is! So, I guess the word processor's grammar helps to keep the story straight!

                    Thanks!
                    P.S.S. - I am using it presently even during the post... and I am finding very small errors as I write it. Guess, it would do me proud to continue using it until I find that I will not need it in time...
                    D. Alin
                    http://alinproduction.blogspot.com Sci-Fi/Fantasy (Basically) [Skype me at "Buyitpc" - I will surely love to talk!]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Is Passive a good form?

                      First Tia vs. Doña.

                      Tia is Aunt in both Spain and Latin speaking countries. Doña is also used in Latin speaking countries, but since Spain had a long established noblity, and Doña was used in those circles, and ... your story has Spanish Galleons ... Doña is the best choice.

                      Tia is a familial term. Doña is more about status.

                      Now, passive voice ...

                      You are in essence asking if you should say

                      1) She was known as the Pirate Doña ...

                      2) Pirate Doña is how she was known ...


                      Forget the computer's guidence for now and use your intuition.

                      What feels like the most natural way to say it? Either? Niether?


                      This is an important scene. Don't let Hal write it for you.

                      A

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                      • #12
                        Re: Is Passive a good form?

                        Originally posted by alex whitmer View Post
                        1) She was known as the Pirate Doña ...

                        2) Pirate Doña is how she was known ...
                        Those are differences in tense (present, past), still the passive form of "known" -- but that's not the KIND of passive voice to go to great lengths to avoid. (How about just "Once known as Doña, Alyson roamed the seven seas, killing her paramours as they slept"?)

                        A cougar attacked Kim ...
                        vs.
                        Kim was attacked by a cougar ...

                        The first is active. Someone's doing something. The second is passive. Someone's having something done to them.

                        You'll see passive construction in newspaper headlines all the time (usually because the actor is unknown or to achieve economy of words -- i.e., "Cab driver shot, killed" when "Unknown assailant shoots, kills cab driver" is ridiculous, puts the emphasis on the wrong person and takes up WAY too much room.)

                        Elsewhere, passive construction usually points to lazy or immature writing, or the inability to figure out what your sentence is about (who's the subject). Avoid that in action lines -- it drains energy from the reading and might indicate confusion about what's really happening.

                        But passive construction can also mean a bureaucratic mindset (no one wants to take responsibility for DOING things, they just happen). It can be used effectively in dialogue to draw a character who feels beset upon, etc., and can draw a character arc as passive voice gradually (or suddenly) gives way to active voice. Plus, it's just the way some people talk, along with "wanna" and "gonna" and odd repetitions and hesitations and circling -- all of which Word might flag as grammatically incorrect but nonetheless potential tools for drawing character through dialogue.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Is Passive a good form?

                          Originally posted by Pull Back Reveal View Post
                          Those are differences in tense (present, past), still the passive form of "known" -- but that's not the KIND of passive voice to go to great lengths to avoid. (How about just "Once known as Doña, Alyson roamed the seven seas, killing her paramours as they slept"?)

                          A cougar attacked Kim ...
                          vs.
                          Kim was attacked by a cougar ...

                          The first is active. Someone's doing something. The second is passive. Someone's having something done to them.

                          You'll see passive construction in newspaper headlines all the time (usually because the actor is unknown or to achieve economy of words -- i.e., "Cab driver shot, killed" when "Unknown assailant shoots, kills cab driver" is ridiculous, puts the emphasis on the wrong person and takes up WAY too much room.)

                          Elsewhere, passive construction usually points to lazy or immature writing, or the inability to figure out what your sentence is about (who's the subject). Avoid that in action lines -- it drains energy from the reading and might indicate confusion about what's really happening.

                          But passive construction can also mean a bureaucratic mindset (no one wants to take responsibility for DOING things, they just happen). It can be used effectively in dialogue to draw a character who feels beset upon, etc., and can draw a character arc as passive voice gradually (or suddenly) gives way to active voice. Plus, it's just the way some people talk, along with "wanna" and "gonna" and odd repetitions and hesitations and circling -- all of which Word might flag as grammatically incorrect but nonetheless potential tools for drawing character through dialogue.

                          WOW - Pull Back Reveal;298813 - whew! I will have to read this over again a few times to comprehend your meaning... to clear. I under active and passive... so I will keep it mind.
                          D. Alin
                          http://alinproduction.blogspot.com Sci-Fi/Fantasy (Basically) [Skype me at "Buyitpc" - I will surely love to talk!]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Is Passive a good form?

                            Comicbent made the point, there's passive and then there's passive. It's not always wrong, but when it is, it drains your writing of life. Your original lines weren't wrong, maybe just wordy.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Is Passive a good form?

                              Originally posted by Pull Back Reveal View Post
                              Comicbent made the point, there's passive and then there's passive. It's not always wrong, but when it is, it drains your writing of life. Your original lines weren't wrong, maybe just wordy.
                              No, they were more than wordy, they were wrong... that's why I asked about it.

                              I read it several time over in my head, once as the writer, another time as a reader... and found that it didn't sound right. So, I ran it under the spell/grammar check and found that it was indeed passive. Figured, it just doesn't work. Had to ask. But, "Once known as the Doña..." sounds easily read, not forced to me. Beside, the grammar check seems to approve!

                              Thanks!
                              D. Alin
                              http://alinproduction.blogspot.com Sci-Fi/Fantasy (Basically) [Skype me at "Buyitpc" - I will surely love to talk!]

                              Comment

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