Re: SC111's posting question

[earlyman75]

Re: SC111's posting question

As a rule, I only post the first five pages of what I'm writing, and that's usually only to see if people sort of get the tone I'm trying to convey before going any further.

Sometimes I feel like a jerk because I do post now and then, but I often don't respond to the writing of others. It's for many of the reasons that have already been listed (especially CE's ideas of taking pages out of context- that really bugs me when I can't wrap my brain around what's already happened in the story by the time I get to the pages in question), but honestly, one of the reasons I don't reply to other people's writing is:

Who the hell am I?

Six scripts written, none sold. Who am I to judge what works and what doesn't? I usually only reply when I see a blatant format issue that might be a problem for a newbie. I guess I feel that that's the level I'm "qualified" to judge on, and when I post, I'm just hoping someone on a higher level of experience than me can in some way give me guidance.

I guess I feel like a bit of a hypocrite for posting my work and not often responding to the work of others, but it seems like there are a lot of people here that enjoy studying other people's pages, so as long as they are willing to take a look, I'll throw out the occasional page or five.

But as long as we're on the topic of posting, I hate it when I am actually in the mood to look at some pages, and at the top of the list is a thread titled something like: Pages 35-40 of Bob's Big Adventure.

It's very, very hard for people to jump in and read that (again, the whole context thing). At the very least, tell us what your concern is about those pages so that, even if we can't adress the story in context, we might be able to make suggestions on what problem it is you might be having within those specific pages.

[sc111]

Re: SC111's posting question

I guess I'm just one of those starry-eyed hopefuls who wishes that someone important would peruse the script pages, read mine and say, "Hey, that's interesting." Then they would contact me, ask for the whole script ...

One or two (or more) DDer's have had this experience, Yvonnjanae.

Besides - lukers are clearly reading the script pages. A number of pages get over 500 hits with only 20 -30 actual replies, half of which are the orginal poster.

Judging from Mini's post above, she reads the script pages. Sadly, she doesn't offer her pro advice.

Oh, well. I guess that solves it. There's no good reason to post pages on Done Deal.

[earlyman75]

Re: SC111's posting question

One or two (or more) DDer's have had this experience, Yvonnjanae.

Posting pages here once got me a read at ICM. It was great because instead of Done Dealers telling me I sucked, a guy at ICM wound up telling me I sucked (in the polite, "this script just isn't for me" way, of course).

What's interesting, though, is because of that experience, I gained some confidence. It was a producer who saw my pages and contacted me, and even though ICM didn't bite, the guy told me I really had potential and should be working with a bigger agent (I was working with kind of a crappy one at the time). The experience led me to contacting other agents and managers, and now I have a great management team that I wouldn't trade for the world right now. I still haven't sold anything, but with the one script I've written under their guidance since joining them earlier this year, I've obtained my first meetings and I no longer feel like I'm just spinning me wheels.

So, if you want to stretch it a bit, you could say that I'm in a decent position now because of the pages I posted that were noticed. If anything, maybe that's a reason to post?

[M4estro]

Re: SC111's posting question

Feedback is invaluable. It lets the writer gain an objective view of their work and helps them realize any leering issues.

The problem with a lot of peer review sites is that there are sooo many writers who are sooo hung up over their “rules” that they think that, just because they’ve read a few screenwriting books, they know exactly how the business works and what industry pros look for. And some of these writers are considered to be the “elite writers” of the site. What a writer needs is honest feedback from trusted writers who won’t BS you.

On DD, there are a range of people from industry pros, optioned writers, sold writers, produced writers, working writers, writers repped by the top agencies, pro readers etc. And learning from these people will be incredible insightful.

Like others have said, it’s difficult to gauge a script on just 5 pages. But, IMO, you can gauge the potential of a writer on their 5 pages. 5 pages (or even 1) is enough to determine whether a writer is on the right track, and whether the rest of his/her script is worth the read. There are plenty of writers who post pages (like dpat and sc) that show they can obviously hold a scene together well and provide a seamless read.

[sasqits]

Re: SC111's posting question

I don't know if I'm alone in this specific position or not, but I think a competent writer who's good at analyzing movies and scripts and puts in his/her time closely studying the same, can write a marketable script with little to no feedback.

This is the point I was trying to make in my original post. Thanks, boski - now a sold screenwriter who knows what he's talking about, for those of you that think way. Gee, what a coincidence that we share the same opinion b/c...wait, my pretensious ego will not allow me to share my background with people who lack confidence.

And how nice of Yvonn to admit that she wasn't really looking for feedback anyway.

Screenwriting is no different than pouring a glass of juice. You can learn how to do it w/o feedback.

Bite me.

[sarajb]

Re: SC111's posting question

vacuums usually suck.

[Qazworld]

Re: SC111's posting question

dont give some of these guys any more masturbation tips, sara.

[Marine66]

Re: SC111's posting question

Screenwriting is no different than pouring a glass of juice. You can learn how to do it w/o feedback.

You obviously never had kids.

[Mister Q]

Re: SC111's posting question

I think you can write the first and second draft without any feedback but then I think you should have someone look over it. Surely even the pros do that.

[sasqits]

Re: SC111's posting question

I think you can write the first and second draft without any feedback but then I think you should have someone look over it. Surely even the pros do that.

And then the pros receive notes on what the studio wants to see. And as we all know, many studios want to please everyone - which is impossible. Trying to do so usually ends up pleasing very few. This type of feedback will not make you a better writer, even though it's coming from the top.

Of course some feedback can be valueable. But it's better to know what you like w/o the need of feedback. Like if I enjoy a movie that my friends don't like, and some critics pan, should I let that feedback sway my opinion?

I've had success and failure w/o any feedback from friends or analysts or posting pages. Would I be better off with feedback? Not in my opinion.

Throughout history, great artists and inventive people have worked in solitude, w/o feedback, to produce their masterpieces. Often, all the feedback told them that they were crazy, it can't be done, the world is flat, etc. - which is why they worked alone.

Screenwriting is no different than pouring a glass of juice. You can learn how to do it w/o feedback.

You obviously never had kids.

Adults have the ability to learn for themselves w/o needing feedback. Although, we may act like kids on these boards, at times, poo face.

Anyway, the debate will rage on, feedback can useful, or detrimental. As always, one has to be confident enough to decide for themself.

Nice sig. Mister Q. Anyone want to try this one? Making your bed is like frying eggs for a late night snack after you've had a hard day at the office b/c of the deadline on the new merger papers. - Think about it. It's true! So true! True, true, trudy can turn into turdy. Turdy, turdy, turdy heads!

[yvonnjanae]

Re: SC111's posting question

I didn't mean I wasn't looking for feedback.

I just meant there's a parallel motive.

[sasqits]

Re: SC111's posting question

I didn't mean I wasn't looking for feedback.

I just meant there's a parallel motive.

Ok, yvonn. But really, you know your pages rock, right?

[Hamboogul]

Re: SC111's posting question

I used to post pages all the time when I first started out screenwriting and my only resource was Done Deal.

People gave me very good notes. Heck, I even got to befriend many of the people here. It was all very helpful.

Now, some of those people who gave me notes have moved on. Or they offer to give me notes on the entire script offline. It's just an evolution of a phase of a DDer.

In fact, the very first five pages of a script that now is garnering a lot of attention for me were the pages I posted on Done Deal a week or two after 9/11. At the time, I wanted to try something different. People here gave me positive notes. With that encouragement, I finished the script (not that I wouldn't have but you know what I mean).


So there you go. A success story based on someone who posted pages on DD.

[Mister Q]

Re: SC111's posting question

Throughout history, great artists and inventive people have worked in solitude, w/o feedback, to produce their masterpieces. Often, all the feedback told them that they were crazy, it can't be done, the world is flat, etc. - which is why they worked alone.

You forgot to mention " . . . and died broke"

[Geevie]

Re: SC111's posting question

This is the point I was trying to make in my original post. Thanks, boski - now a sold screenwriter who knows what he's talking about, for those of you that think way. Gee, what a coincidence that we share the same opinion b/c...wait, my pretensious ego will not allow me to share my background with people who lack confidence.

And how nice of Yvonn to admit that she wasn't really looking for feedback anyway.

Screenwriting is no different than pouring a glass of juice. You can learn how to do it w/o feedback.

Bite me.

Really? You remember pouring your first glass of juice? How old were you? Did Mommy give you a hand, or were you raised by a pack of wolves?

See most people were shown how to pour a glass of juice, then poured (and spilled) under supervision. Gradually, over time and with repeated practice the supervision was less and less until we succeeded at pouring a glass of juice all by our onesies.

It's called a growth process.

Feedback is a critical part of a writer's growth process.

In *my* original post on this subject I said that many of us who have been around here a while have grown beyond the need to post pages simply because of the limitations of a five page review. We've come along in our craft, mastered how to construct a scene - and hell, an entire screenplay. Many of us have had industry feedback, or worked with credited producers/directors and agents - or have a circle of seasoned writers (pro and prepro) to help guide our way.

It's not about being "confident". A confident writer will show his or her works to the world because they know how to filter what they can use and what they can't. Someone who has to rely on, "I know what I'm doing, you don't have to look at it," generally is anything but confident. That arrogance stems from insecurity, the fear of being told they suck.

At some point, if you want to sell what you write, you're going to get (and need) feedback. And if you want to work, you have to learn how to incorporate that feedback.

A truly confident writer will not have a problem with this. Confidence is being sure of what you know, but humility is realizing you don't know everything.

The former without the latter is EGO.