Male/Female Archetypes...

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  • #16
    Re: Male/Female Archetypes...

    Archetype - Bimbo Whore - this bubbly personality usually sports huge protrudiences from her upper chest area and is generally of the female gender. She screams endlessly at things that go bump and killers find them so irritating they generally dispatch them first saving the last Bimbo Whore to escape because the killer is too exhausted knocking off previous double dee characters that he needs a nap. Bimbo whore interacts wholeheartedly with male characters, especially Dumb Jock, Pissed Off Bad Boy, Nervous Nerd and Timid Teacher although they have been known to ride Wheelchair Boy.

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    • #17
      Re: Male/Female Archetypes...

      And, I'd venture to guess that most bimbo whores are written by men.

      "So I guess big parts of our youth are supposed to suck. Otherwise we'd get too attached and wake up one day trapped on a hamster wheel that used to look like a merri-go-round." - Hal Sparks

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      • #18
        Re: Male/Female Archetypes...

        I beg to differ... It's a female producer I'm doing the rewrite for...

        How's the writing going, Geeves?

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        • #19
          Re: Male/Female Archetypes...

          Revisionist:

          The number one thing that drives adolescence is acceptance and approval by their peers... A lot more than acceptance and approval of their parents at this stage. They are rebelling and this acceptance and approval by their peers validates their rebellion from the parent(s).

          A key factor to remember is it doesn't matter if it is the geeky math nerd or even the big man on campus jock because they ALL want to be accepted at all costs and are afraid to show who they really are underneath (as people) because it is viewed as a sign weakness and that is something which is amplified in high school when everyone will jump on any sign of weakness and chew you up with it.

          So, what do most teens use as a defense mechanism to not let any weakness show?

          Sarcasm.

          Half the stuff out of teens mouths will be sarcastic, cynical remarks. This is what your general dialog between the teens will sound like. And yes, from adult perspective it will be very annoying... But it will read more true as far as how teens really speak.

          For instance, instead of a teen saying they are going to be in trouble for something, they'd say:

          "My dad is going to go Pearl Harbor on my ass if I don't get home"

          Also, as cliched at it sounds teen do use the word "like" way too much:

          "So, like, I was going to the mall and like Kyle and this dude showed up".

          "Dude. Didn't you like ask Carly to the dance when you showed up at the mall with Kyle?"

          A phrase that a lot of teens currently use to express confusion is "Random".

          "That was like so... Random. I don't even know where to start"

          "OK. Could our teacher be anymore random about our home work assignment?"

          Instead of saying, "Oh S--t", it is now "Oh, Snap!"

          Oh, snap! I forgot my book bag in the locker room.

          However don't confuse sarcasm with actual knowledge or wisdom. This is what makes a teen a teen and an experienced adult and experienced adult. Even though kids today are growing up with text messaging, camera phones, IMs, the internet, etc... These are just tools. The experience of how to use those tools and how to conduct one's self in certain situations only life experience can bring.

          In keeping with the above, what you have to do is make these archetypes vulnerable, a.k.a. human, beyond just being the archetypes they are who spout witty pop-culture references every other sentence.

          For instance you have the shy, quiet nerd. Well, make him the shy, quiet nerd who is Black... But the reason he is quiet is because he already feels alienated being a black kid in a primarily White Suburban school and even the other Black kids accuse him of becoming "White". Have them call him an "Oreo" -- Black on the outside; white on the inside -- In an early scenes to establish his alienation. This is his internal conflict because it may be true.

          This also touches on what Bill said about archetypes and their function.

          This shy, Black nerd not only is the smartest one in the group, he is going to be the ones the others look to not necessarily as the leader, but to give them direction in how to solve their problems.

          He will be the go-to kid the emerging leader will ask for support; sort of the leader's second in command. This ties in with his conflict of NOT wanting to be leader's second in command... Especially if the leader is White... Because the Black nerd feels he is becoming too "White" -- And of course, now is the best time to try and work through this problem with a killer trying to slice and dice them all. However, it is a great way to give tension and depth and move beyond just the archetype this Black nerd represents, IMO.
          Last edited by WritersBlock2010; 02-11-2007, 10:14 AM.
          Positive outcomes. Only.

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          • #20
            Re: Male/Female Archetypes...

            Originally posted by sc111 View Post
            Heros are usually more complex in their motivations... they start out thinking they want 'The Grail' for one reason, but in the coure of their journey they realize their soul was reaching for more than "The Grail."

            Which brings us back to the why.

            Why would the hero change their reason/understanding of their search for the grail?

            What happened?

            If I go from wanting a big house to wanting a small house, the first question everyone will ask is ... why?

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            • #21
              Re: Male/Female Archetypes...

              I think what he's saying isn't that the want or need for the actual "Grail" changes, it's still the Grail. He's saying that during the course of the quest through outer but mostly inner conflict, the protag realizes, that he's looking for the Grail as a way of satisfying a deeper inner need.

              Say you want a big house, but you really don't have a solid inner reason to do it. But outside you crave the attention and prestige from friends and family over your purchase which in a small way can be an inner self esteem issue. But as you raise the money and sell your stocks to buy it you learn something about yourself. That the house is your subconcsious saying to you that you want to settle down and quit going to the bar wasting money all the time. You want security, and you can get that through a real estate purchase and then start thinking about a family of your own. It's your way of growing up.

              That's kinda the way I took it.

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              • #22
                Re: Male/Female Archetypes...

                Originally posted by alex whitmer View Post
                Which brings us back to the why.

                Why would the hero change their reason/understanding of their search for the grail?

                What happened?

                If I go from wanting a big house to wanting a small house, the first question everyone will ask is ... why?
                Alex - Revisionist understood.

                But I was also addressing your absolute statement that there's always an answer as to WHY a character does X, Y or Z.

                With protags - yes, there's always answer - because it addresses the protag's arc.

                In antagonists or villians the "why did they do it" question is rarely answered except in the most general way (greed, world domination) because antags don't have arcs.

                My Example: IAGO - a character that dominates the play yet is not the lead - WHY did Iago hate Othello and go to such lengths to destroy him?

                That question has never been answered yet Othello is a classic.

                I felt your statement was misleading people into thinking the "why" question must be answered for every character/archetype in a script. It does not.

                Here's the problem with archetypes -- some writers misinterpret what they mean and use them to create cliched characters based on one archetype.

                You don't want your characters to embody a single archetype - it will be unrealistic. Why?

                Because human beings embody characteristics of different archetypes.

                I can be TOUGH-AS-NAILS WOMAN in a business meeting because I want to protect my career interests. I can be NURTURING MOM with my kids. I can be SEX VIXEN when I get into bed with my guy.

                Think of RIPLEY in Alien - she's a multi-archetype female character. That's what makes her interesting.
                Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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                • #23
                  Re: Male/Female Archetypes...

                  Originally posted by Revisionist View Post
                  I beg to differ... It's a female producer I'm doing the rewrite for...

                  How's the writing going, Geeves?
                  Perhaps, my dear. But who, exactly, is doing the writing?

                  Going okay. On script number 8. One more and I should be sold.
                  "So I guess big parts of our youth are supposed to suck. Otherwise we'd get too attached and wake up one day trapped on a hamster wheel that used to look like a merri-go-round." - Hal Sparks

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                  • #24
                    Re: Male/Female Archetypes...

                    Originally posted by sc111 View Post
                    because antags don't have arcs.


                    An antag could start out with a rather simple plan to get what he or she wants. When that doesn't pan out, they up the ante, possibly beyond what even they thought they were capable of.

                    They came to rob a bank, but resorted to murder in the end. Maybe we see them struggle with it, then resolve to cross the line of no return. Petty criminal sells their soul.

                    A
                    Last edited by alex whitmer; 02-11-2007, 03:05 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Male/Female Archetypes...

                      Originally posted by sc111 View Post
                      I was also addressing your absolute statement that there's always an answer as to WHY a character does X, Y or Z.
                      To clarify, they are not my words, but I do find them to be wise words nonetheless. Certainly not absolute. This is writing for christ sake!

                      The words come from ...

                      http://www.tamicowden.com/archetypes.htm

                      I do not subscribe 100% to any/all, but like the perspective.

                      A
                      Last edited by alex whitmer; 02-11-2007, 03:09 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Male/Female Archetypes...

                        Okay, I'm doing the rewrite... Man, you gotta call me on everything dontcha, Geeves...

                        And contrary to what I might have thought. The draft that the producer gave me today only had one "kinda" Bimbo out of two and I get to change her to a more aggressive smart bimbo.

                        And the countdown to delivery begins. A page one rewrite that has to be done in 16 days. With 2 days to outline the entire script with the producer that leaves 14 to do the writing. Wish me luck... lol. It should be a breeze...

                        Kinda weird rewriting someone else's work. Project's gone through two writers already and they're hanging all the financing and final script on me. No pressure there.

                        Glad to see you're still writing, Geevie. What was that one script that had the Indian girl in it? I think it was yours. I don't remember much about it but I remember it's the only script I've read that brought tears to my peepers.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Male/Female Archetypes...

                          Originally posted by Revisionist View Post
                          a more aggressive smart bimbo.

                          Is that like, a new improved bimbo? Next thing you know we'll have breast reduction and appropriate attire. Tee hee!


                          And ... best of luck on the project. Wish you success!
                          Last edited by alex whitmer; 02-12-2007, 08:17 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Male/Female Archetypes...

                            Yepper. It's Dan's new and improved super bimbo archetype. They'll be adding it to the following list...

                            Heroine evolving toward self actualization - Million Dollar Baby
                            Heroine evolving toward self hell - Rosemary's Baby
                            Heroine trapped in selp imposed psychological prison - As Good As It Gets
                            Heroine trapped in social prison - Shakespeare In Love
                            Heroine trapped in circumstantial prison - Erin Brockovich

                            and finally...

                            Heroine trapped with junk in the trunk in a sexually intellectual prison - Untitled

                            Thanks for the support, Buddy. It's hard to get used to the idea of being a 'working' writer. The big difference being that you go from doing it for fun to still doing it for fun but getting up earlier and going to bed later.

                            And here I thought it'd get easier when I was working...

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                            • #29
                              Re: Male/Female Archetypes...

                              does anyone know of a comprehensive list or "catalog" (by which I mean a list with explanations) of major movie archetypes?

                              or, is this feels like a too much professional tool to be easily found on the internet or in some book, a very good book on classic archetypes, like myths from the old age and alike

                              I mean a book which describes specifically what each character means, what role he usually plays in the story and so on..

                              thanks

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                              • #30
                                Re: Male/Female Archetypes...

                                Originally posted by diego80 View Post
                                does anyone know of a comprehensive list or "catalog" (by which I mean a list with explanations) of major movie archetypes?

                                or, is this feels like a too much professional tool to be easily found on the internet or in some book, a very good book on classic archetypes, like myths from the old age and alike

                                I mean a book which describes specifically what each character means, what role he usually plays in the story and so on..

                                thanks
                                Campbell's Hero With A Thousand Faces and Bruno Bettleheim's Uses of Enchantment cover this. Both are very 'academic' but worth reading even if you're not a writer.
                                My stuff

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