Religion and movies

[proof]

I first published this question in a logline discussion. Realized it might be rude to hijack another person's thread.

In the logline discussion, several posts shared the notion that religious content should be avoided. That it's a widespread fact actually. Give me the industry standpoint.
How come you should refrain from writing something that deals with religion? I don't understand. Lots of movies lean on religious motifs, themes and metaphors. A majority of the recent fantasy movies have a spiritual/religious quest. My point is, we see so many movies that deal with religion, indirectly and directly. I think those types of flicks are great. Best
/Jimmy

[JamesNI]

Re: Religion and movies

Honestly, I'd say if you can write a fantastic screenplay that tackles religion in any shape or form, go for it. Write it. Pitch it. If you can sell it, you know it works. If you can't sell it, you know for future reference.
Just my opinion, but I'm no expert on screenwriting or religion.. so probably not much use!

[WritersBlock2010]

Re: Religion and movies

The major reason: It's not good business sense. It's too controversial.

Religion (in the U.S.) is one of the major issues that distinctively separate people based on their beliefs. It is very personal topic and encompasses a way of life and is one of the topics that has thousands of years of non-agreement and bloodshed behind it.

If you are a major Hollywood studio who wants to bring in the widest audience possible then you already know producing a story about religion is going to immediately shrink a potential audience.

Even though Christianity (general belief in God, Jesus Christ, Angels, Devil, etc.) is the predominant religion in the U.S. the possibility exists many people of the religion being featured in the film might be offended by the portrayal. Not to mention those outside who may feel one particular religion is getting preferential treatment because of the film itself. There are countless other reasons, but they all have one thing in common: They can generate negative press that can cause potential movie goers to stay away.

Also, I think we should clarify what we mean when we say a "religious films".

In my opinion, a story like "Da Vinci Code", or "Raiders of the Lost Ark", or is not a religious story per se. It has religious elements and over/undertones... But it is not about a religious event, or historical recreation. Or, it at least takes a non-religious portrayal and concentrates more on telling a good story that is accessible to everybody, I.E. "Kingdom of Heaven" that is about the Crusades, but doesn't promote Christianity over other religions.

A movie like "The Passion of the Christ", or "Mary & Joseph" are what I consider religious movies that are specifically about religious figures and historical recreations.

This is just my personal opinion and yours might vary. But I feel it is very close to what mainstream Hollywood studios classify "religious" films as too.

The main thing to keep in mind for this discussion as it pertains to the business side of Hollywood is "Passion of the Christ" was an independent film funded entirely by Mel Gibson outside the Hollywood system. He approached various studios, but none of them wanted to make it for the reasons we're discussing here (too divisive; too controversial).

It just happened to became a smash hit in 2004, during the height of the Evangelical movement that nobody saw coming... But the general rule of thumb was followed as far as always trying to make projects that appeal to the widest audience possible. This usually includes avoiding controversial subject matter like religion.

[Angeloworx]

Re: Religion and movies

It is amazing that we are rewarded if we can write a movie that asks the questions, indirectly addresses morality based on religion, and recycle the same story hiding in a original concept. The question becomes, how can you avoid it?

[suzeaa]

Re: Religion and movies

In my latest script part of my protag's positive arch is to tell his priest he is leaving the church (and he has a very good reason). It's potentially very controversial, but I handled it in a rather gentle manner. I meant to stab, but I stabbed gently.

I am certainly not afraid of the topic, though. My scripts tend to be very social/political. The one I just started is a doozy of a religious stabbing, and in the context, nearly impossible to argue. But I DO leave an 'out', for several reasons. One is it kind of 'saves' me as the writer -- anyone who doesn't want to believe it can go with the 'out'. But the biggest reason is that it creates a more layered controversy, and is therefore more open to thought and discussion. It's also far more realistic.

[tabula rasa]

Re: Religion and movies

I know that discussion about "religion" per se is frowned upon here, but obviously the Mods allow intelligent and polite discussion when it deals with FILMMAKING ... so I'll tippy toe like kittens!

I prolly agree with what everyone's said so far, especially WritersBlock2010's comments. I think what's important is: AVOID films that GRIND AN AXE concerning religion (pro OR con) unless you are targetting an audience that you know ALREADY SHARES your views!

Do not seek to convert, it's that easy.

You can write a movie ABOUT religion, if you remember that FIRST and MOSTLY, your movie has to be about HUMAN EMOTIONS and HUMAN DRAMA.

I love "Bible" movies. TEN COMMANDMENTS, Christians being fed to lions by pagan lovers ... I love 'em. I hate those namby-pamby "modern faith" movies you see on Church-networks, not because they are "religious" but because they are often simply LAME plots and lame lukewarm characters, written by writers who don't need (or try) to engage their audiences in REAL human passion and conflict and controversy.

I mentioned BEN HUR in another post, and BEN HUR is considered one of the great "religious" movies. But it's ABOUT Human relationships and loyalty, passion and revenge, forgiveness and love.

It [THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST, my addition there] just happened to became a smash hit in 2004, during the height of the Evangelical movement that nobody saw coming...

That I'd argue with. The Evangelical Movement had been strong and a dominant cultural MAINSTREAM force since Reagan and the 1980's.

So we ALL knew it was already HERE. Mel Gibson "saw it coming" obviously from a movie-making point of view, he KNEW the audience might embrace his movie.

The people who were BLIND-SIDED by its huge success would be the same people who insist most loudly "Don't deal with Religion in movies"

And that's the sunglasses of the blind not the sunglasses of the too-cool.

BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN was embraced because it was a love story about HUMAN EMOTION, not because there was some huge mainstream audience yearning for a homosexual cowboy story!

Your "religion" movie can do the same. Why not?

People don't like to feel "preached" to ...

People reject "religion" because of their own presumptions and stereotypes about what a "religion" movie is or isn't.

As for those in Hollywood who aren't just expressing their intelligent concerns about marketing "religious movies" ... but who are actually anti-religious bigots (in the same way some people are anti-black or anti-female bigots)

Scripture tells us that the sun shines upon the wicked and the righteous both.

Johnny Cash tells us "God is going to cut you down"

Write the movie you have passion to write. I would throw the dice in the name of your Passion rather than Hollywood's Pap, anytime, and without flinching.

[suzeaa]

Re: Religion and movies

... or Judas Iscariot.

Actually, there's potential for a GREAT film there. Read the Judas Gospel.

The Gospel of Judas gives a different view of the relationship between Jesus and Judas, offering new insights into the disciple who betrayed Jesus. Unlike the accounts in the canonical Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, in which Judas is portrayed as a reviled traitor, this newly discovered Gospel portrays Judas as acting at Jesus' request when he hands Jesus over to the authorities.

[wcmartell]

Re: Religion and movies

What boski said...

And US films are made for an international audience, and there are whole countries that are not Christian (and we still want them to see our movies).

The indirect thing works, though - because that danged lion in NARNIA could be anyone.

And that guy named J.C. who saves mankind... from the cyborgs... was pretty popular in 3 films and now a TV show.

Last holiday season they made a big studio NATIVITY STORY to cash in one the PASSION crowd... but no one showed up. Fox Faith is scaling back, I guess sales aren't as brisk as they once were.

- Bill

[bed-and-bones]

Re: Religion and movies

Religion doesn't exist in the world of my stories. I don't use "Jesus" or "Christ" in dialogue etc.

A world where there is no religion. Now that's "heaven". heh.

[tabula rasa]

Re: Religion and movies

Religion doesn't exist in the world of my stories. I don't use "Jesus" or "Christ" in dialogue etc.

A world where there is no religion. Now that's "heaven". heh.

So ... lemme see, was the "no religion" perp the first one to actually start the thread into telling us about their own personal beliefs?

It was either the "no religion" guy or the Gnostic gospel guy.

I tell ya ... sometimes I'd throw a stone, except y'know I'm told not to throw stones!

#

I think I read somewhere once that if we're counting literature where most Western Civilization cultural quotes or references come from, it breaks down like this:

The #1 source is Old & New Testament
The #2 source is Shakespeare

Writers may not care or dare to use Scriptural references ... but the culture does.

What's really odd is when you hear a reference or a quote and you're trying to figure out if it's Scripture or Shakespeare or Shakespeare referencing Scripture.

A pox on both their houses, as some would say.

[Goon Squad]

Re: Religion and movies

I first published this question in a logline discussion. Realized it might be rude to hijack another person's thread.

In the logline discussion, several posts shared the notion that religious content should be avoided. That it's a widespread fact actually. Give me the industry standpoint.
How come you should refrain from writing something that deals with religion? I don't understand. Lots of movies lean on religious motifs, themes and metaphors. A majority of the recent fantasy movies have a spiritual/religious quest. My point is, we see so many movies that deal with religion, indirectly and directly. I think those types of flicks are great. Best
/Jimmy

The logline in question (assuming it was megachurch) suggested "Christians" as the heavies. I believe it's prudent not to pitch a story where any specific religion is singled out as the baddie. Take the same logline and sub in the word "Jews" or "Muslims" where it said "Christians" and you'd have the same problem.

But there is nothing preventing anyone from writing a film - even a challenging one - about faith using, as you say, "religious motifs, themes and metaphors."

[proof]

Re: Religion and movies

The logline discussion was actually the one for The Second Coming.

Thanks a lot for all the input. I understand the possible controversial/non-commercial aspect of including religion in your story. Can also see the difference between a more subtle reference to religion compared to a hardcore, subjective Gospel-adaptation. Best
/Jimmy

[reddery]

Re: Religion and movies

Logic derives from historical insight.

IMHO, universal themes appeal to a large audience.

Experts refer to classic storylines that audiences expect. Understanding these stories is understanding structure.

When we show the image of god on screen, what do people expect?
(no Muslim jokes please)

Then twist that idea with a proper introduction of character and their views of god -
- e.g. Donnie Darko

[Bellabell]

Re: Religion and movies

There are plenty of small independent production companies looking specifically for religious themed movies. Just don't expect a lot of money or a theatrical release. There's a market for everything.

[suzeaa]

Re: Religion and movies

I don't think films like 'The Nativity Story' tanked because they were about religious topics, but because they were poorly written. 'TNS' was described as very dull.

'When You Care Enough to Send the Very Best'...the film has all the substance, visual appeal, and excitement of a Hallmark card. -- Peter Canavese

And 'Evan Almighty' -- Criticized for trying to please EVERYONE, therefore pleasing NO ONE.