Things Don't Add Up Anymore

[ShaneBlackFan]

Re: Things Don't Add Up Anymore

I think the logic issues in TDK can be attributed to the sheer volume of ideas. If they concentrated on fewer ideas, then the logic would have sorted itself out. Yhey loaded up the plot, resulting in overspill.

I do hate flippancy, "It's only a movie," you are a writer, you should care! It's not life or death, but outside of that you should be darn serious about it.

[reddery]

Re: Things Don't Add Up Anymore

Well, for one, the murder the protag was accused of couldn't have happened if not for the spontaneous and unmotivated prediction causing it and shouldn't have happened anyway because it was actually a suicide.

So there goes the inciting incident, and thus, there goes the whole film. But it was really fun up until the end when it failed to deliver a logical solution to the mystery.

well if I remember the movie-been awhile-a sniper kills the guy while Anberton and Agatha are both in the room?



On a totally different note: those guys are all talented writers, just my Spec writer frustration; they've all written great scripts over the years.

Pyrmyth, did mean to attack your statement(if that's how it came off), same excuse as before.

[pwrmyth]

Re: Things Don't Add Up Anymore

Yeah, it was always this way. The longer you write, the more trained you become at detecting problems. So it just seems like there are more holes now. As far as Get Smart, I'm almost positive they cut the scene out that was supposed to be between those two. Not that it's an excuse. I'm just saying it wasn't a mistake at the writing stage.

You're probably right. My point in creating this post was not to lament about the loss of the good old days. My point is that it seems harder and harder to find films which take the time to connect the dots. And I was wondering if other writers were noticing that too -- and how they felt about it.

I love nothing more than to go to the movies and be swept away, be it a comedy or drama or whatever. But when you break the suspension of disbelief a la Hancock and then say nobody will care and they don't -- well, that just pisses me off.

I believe good storytelling is like all craftsmanship -- it takes pride and it takes effort and it takes skill and it takes people involved in the process who want to do good work at every level. Maybe things have always been the same... the thesis was floated as a question, not a scree.

[TheKeenGuy]

Re: Things Don't Add Up Anymore

haven't seen the movie in a while. I'll probably go back and read the novel soon; give me an example of how it could been improved.

Well, for one, the murder the protag was accused of couldn't have happened if not for the spontaneous and unmotivated prediction causing it and shouldn't have happened anyway because it was actually a suicide.

So there goes the inciting incident, and thus, there goes the whole film. But it was really fun up until the end when it failed to deliver a logical solution to the mystery.

[reddery]

Re: Things Don't Add Up Anymore

In fact, that's why I look forward to films written by old school writers: Paul Haggis, Tony Gilroy, Steve Zaillian, Scott Frank, Frank Darabont. They sweat the details. You can pretty much assume that if you missed something, it was your own fault. The pieces all add up -- it's up to you to figure out how.
I(')s ... so crazy?

you should look into the details of these writer's careers.

Adaptations of novels.

Coming from your own logic on this subject and never seeing 'Get Smart'...

Minority Report, ...(a film)... that could have been much tighter if they'd just tweaked the script a little(,) but came across like they figured that they were playing to the mouthbreathers, so why bother putting in the extra work to make the narrative threads tie together?

haven't seen the movie in a while. I'll probably go back and read the novel soon; give me an example of how it could been improved.

I've been asked by big production companies who you would think would know better to do ridiculous things to a story. I think there's a feeling in Hollywood that a writer should be able to take ANY note and somehow, magically, make it work and make sense.

Personally, I think any professional writer should be able to do that and observe any changes that are associated with it.

[Shari Hari]

Re: Things Don't Add Up Anymore

I think some people give notes just to justify their existence in the Hollywood food chain.

Don't just think it. Know it. Vomitoriously true.

[ScriptShadow]

Re: Things Don't Add Up Anymore

Yeah, it was always this way. The longer you write, the more trained you become at detecting problems. So it just seems like there are more holes now. As far as Get Smart, I'm almost positive they cut the scene out that was supposed to be between those two. Not that it's an excuse. I'm just saying it wasn't a mistake at the writing stage.

Re: Get Smart - This was a movie I beleive was hurt by the current trend in screenwriting - which is to have your hero always drive the the story no matter what - Unfortunately that's just not Get Smart. Maxwell Smart was a bumbling idiot - which is what made all the goofball stuff in the old TV show work - In this film they tried to have their cake and eat it too, by having Maxwell Smart be a bumbling idiot yet also always in control of what was going on. It made no sense as a character and was a complete disaster in my eyes.

[Signal30]

Re: Things Don't Add Up Anymore

Yeah... even "better" used to be better. Damn.

[JeffLowell]

Re: Things Don't Add Up Anymore

Stupid kids! Everything used to be better! Bah!

[GreatOz]

Re: Things Don't Add Up Anymore

Loop holes in films are usually the scars of forced rewrites as a result of stupid notes by the producers.

So no, I don't blame the screenwriter.

When I first read the thread, that's the exact thing that came to my mind. I've been asked by big production companies who you would think would know better to do ridiculous things to a story. I think there's a feeling in Hollywood that a writer should be able to take ANY note and somehow, magically, make it work and make sense.

I think some people give notes just to justify their existence in the Hollywood food chain.

[Biohazard]

Re: Things Don't Add Up Anymore

"Dude, it's just a movie!"

So is The Godfather.

No reason why all filmmakers can't strive for that level of quality.

Plus, there's the quote in my sig...

[Signal30]

Re: Things Don't Add Up Anymore

Huh... I thought it was just me. I've been noticing over the past few years that there seems to be an increasing lack of Can't Be Bothered in films that should know better, with glaring potholes that could be fixed with just one quick line of dialogue.

Two that really bothered me were Flightplan and Minority Report, two films that could have been much tighter if they'd just tweaked the script a little... but came across like they figured that they were playing to the mouthbreathers, so why bother putting in the extra work to make the narrative threads tie together?

But it does seem to be getting to be more obvious, in more major pictures, in increasing numbers. Visually I enjoyed The Dark Knight, but on a narrative level it was as loaded with plotholes and disregard for any internal logic as any STDVD quickie.

This year has been especially bad for the problem, but I'm still blaming the writer's strike and projects rushed into production with unpolished scripts before it hit.

Although with the massive success of TDK, that sets a precedent that narrative logic is completely irrelevant as long as you keep the audience distracted by the flash.

But, then... "Dude, it's just a movie!"

[dpaterso]

Re: Things Don't Add Up Anymore

I blame the actors. The A-listers who have the power to say, whoa, I'm not climbing into a fridge, and I'm not saying that crap, it makes me sound stupid, where's my friggin character arc, get me the screenwriter.

-Derek

[TheKeenGuy]

Re: Things Don't Add Up Anymore

Loop holes in films are usually the scars of forced rewrites as a result of stupid notes by the producers.

So no, I don't blame the screenwriter.

[Biohazard]

Re: Things Don't Add Up Anymore

I've always wondered how the old classics can stand up to decades of close scrutiny, yet flaws are immediately evident in today's films on first viewing.