Great Screenwriters and Feedback

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  • Great Screenwriters and Feedback

    Do great screenwriters need feedback before they complete the final edit -- or even during the initial writing process-- on a new screenplay? Do they need or seek feedback to point out plot holes, weak character development, and the innumerable other things that can screw up a screenplay/story?

  • #2
    Re: Great Screenwriters and Feedback

    Some will say yes, others will say no.

    And your poor thread will turn into yet another two hundred post argument about feedback, during which four DD'ers will leave the board "forever," two will be banned and at least half-a-dozen will pass out. (This topic is one of the most hotly debated on screenwriting message boards. Lives have been lost over it.)


    "Tone is now engaged in a furious Google search for Leighton Meester's keester." -- A friend of mine

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    • #3
      Re: Great Screenwriters and Feedback

      Gotta have goals Ralphy.

      I do have question, though:

      Do notes from your manager count? That's feedback...right?
      The best way out is always through. - Robert Frost

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      • #4
        Re: Great Screenwriters and Feedback

        Yeah, I've been in some of those battles to the death over feedback.

        Some well-known writers insist, "You're the expert. You shouldn't need anybody else to tell you when you've done good work." But most of the writers I hear speak at conferences and screenings say they always show their completed script to a small circle of trusted readers for feedback.

        They surely know they've done good work, and they obviously aren't making beginner mistakes, but they also know how people's reactions vary, and that there will be reactions to certain choices they made that they didn't anticipate. By hearing some honest reactions from trusted readers, the writer has the chance to decide what, if any, changes to make.

        It might depend on whether you think writing is more about expressing your own voice no matter what anybody else says, or more about entertaining and communicating, in which case you want to know whether or not people received the communication you thought you were delivering, and which parts of what you wrote did or did not entertain.

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        • #5
          Re: Great Screenwriters and Feedback

          Ralphy, I din't realize this was a hot question on other boards. It was inspired by the discussion on our still live thread What Makes a Good Screenwriter Great.

          Zen that sure counts as feedback. But, does a great screenwriter seek or want that kind of feedback?

          Joan, good stuff. I can't wait to hear what others say about this.

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          • #6
            Re: Great Screenwriters and Feedback

            Originally posted by jonpiper View Post
            Zen that sure counts as feedback. But, does a great screenwriter seek or want that kind of feedback?
            We know what Farnsworth would say, but I think it just depends on the person.


            Different strokes for different folks; however, there seems to be some logic to having input from a trusted source, but to each their own.
            The best way out is always through. - Robert Frost

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            • #7
              Re: Great Screenwriters and Feedback

              I think no matter how advanced or professional you are in your career, you still need someone else's opinion of your work. Even a great writer such as Harold Pinter would, before publishing or producing any of his plays, send them to Samuel Beckett for feedback.

              Most writers I know (I among them) go to their wives (or husbands or, in the case of children's writers, their kids and their kids' friends) first, then get the opinion of their agents, who almost always give notes and suggest revisions before it's seen by anyone else.

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              • #8
                Re: Great Screenwriters and Feedback

                Too many people read "feedback" and think "notes" in the studio executive sense.

                Feedback is invaluable at any level. Even bad feedback can usually yield something positive for a genuinely great writer who knows how to handle it.

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                • #9
                  Re: Great Screenwriters and Feedback

                  Kaufman doesn't get feedback. But to be honest, I think his work suffers because of it.
                  Script Reviews - 5 a week! http://scriptshadow.blogspot.com/

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                  • #10
                    Re: Great Screenwriters and Feedback

                    Feedback is an invaluable tool, much like a scriptwriting program. Looked at in that light, does using FD7 make someone a great writer?

                    Being able to differentiate from the opinion in feedback from the hard facts in the same feedback is key. But, regardless of that, it's still up to the writer to make a great script based on what they feel the story should be... And no amount of feedback will ever change that.
                    Words... they don't arrange themselves.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Great Screenwriters and Feedback

                      That's it. I'm leaving this board forever!!

























                      j/k.










                      Seriously though, yeah. They do. As stated, it's mostly from managers and agents at that point (as well as, perhaps, a few good writer friends).
                      For more of my thoughts on screenwriting, check out my blog.
                      Jonny Atlas Writes!

                      - Sic Semper Tyrannis.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Great Screenwriters and Feedback

                        Screenwriting is a mass medium for a mass audience -- it costs too much to make movies for it to be anything else. Judging the appeal and efficacy of your screenplay from only one perspective (no matter how "great") seems foolhardy.
                        "You become what you think about all day long" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

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                        • #13
                          Re: Great Screenwriters and Feedback

                          I don't think every writer needs feedback, but I do think that pretty much all writers - even the greatest ones can benefit from it.

                          The main thing that feedback provides an experienced writer is fresh eyes and objectivity. Working in development I've found that even the best writers are sometimes so familiar with, and close to their scripts that they can't see that they haven't gotten certain things on the page. The other thing that quality feedback can do is cut down on the number of drafts by pointing out problems that the writer may not discover on his own until several drafts down the line, if at all.

                          I don't normally reach out for feedback until I've done a couple of drafts, because I think it's my job as a professional to do the heavy lifting on my own. But I wouldn't imagine ever submitting a script until I've received feedback from those I trust to be honest - brutally, if necessary. I'm one of those people who doesn't think that all feedback is created equal. In my opinion there are those who by education and/or professional experience or just by innate instinct have an understanding of drama and craft and therefore can offer feedback that is more valuable to the writer.

                          I think the less you know about the craft, the better off you are getting feedback on the very early drafts - even the first - so you can learn what you're doing wrong, before you keep doing it wrong.

                          I think it's good for all writers to learn how to handle feedback - because if you get anywhere in this business - you almost certainly will find yourself the recipient of feedback - and chances are that at times the feedback will make your blood boil and it's important to learn how to handle it in a professional manner.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Great Screenwriters and Feedback

                            I agree that a manager or Agent should give you feedback on your script, basically cause they are selling the script for you.

                            I'd probably start the conversation by saying, "don't take offence to this, but here's why you're stupid...", "explaining how plot point *, refers to plot point*, and how if such changes were made, a whole new PAGES ONE re-write is neeeded". Ending the conversation by saying, "it's a miracle that most of the movies are made, considering how badly they are conceived and written, and your merited opinion is much that of someone of ill decernment."

                            This is to prepare the agent/manager so that he can go to the interested party and represently me legitly. You might need to pump them up for the fight, in this case, two uppers with a scotch back is the best perscribed medicine.

                            Then unplug my phone for two weeks. Even if he has a deal, the right deal, isn't the first one. I might even get out of town for a few weeks(if my agent is one that seems to stop by unnounced); splash some blood on my car, max out my credit cards, and catch a cab to the airport.

                            In this case, and sometimes it does happen, you forget your passport. You should just head to Mexico, maybe baja, somewhere cheap; as your credit cards are maxed out, and really sooner or later you'll have to start selling your clothes, Ipod, jewerly, but this all planned as when you max them out, you always buy extra. Always sell the Rental car last.

                            Now when you do call you friends to get enough money to get back they are so happy to know you're alive it becomes a situation of relief and satisfaction. This is a good time to add that, you should always be making new friends, it only works a one, maybe two times from my experience and should only usually call on a tuesday night, to your most loneliest, overweight friends.

                            Now when you get home you are so desperate to get any money, you'll take any notes and rewrite any crap, that will keep your car from being repossesed and thrown out of your apartment. And hollywood has another summer blockbuster.


                            Pictures of my island vacation, also my old stripper photos and dog portraits are on my blog.
                            But this wily god never discloses even to the skillful questioner the whole content of his wisdom.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Great Screenwriters and Feedback

                              Was reading about a writer who sold the Evan Almighty script (Before it was Evan Almighty, "Passion Of The Ark" it got a bid from every studio before selling for millions)-

                              He went out with a horror script immediately after a similar one did massive sales at the box office, he said it was a first draft he hadn't gone over. But alas, it sold.

                              He did have a partner on that script though, so I guess four eyes can catch more than two.
                              Write.Sell.Repeat.

                              Theoretically...

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