Over-complicated plot?

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  • Over-complicated plot?

    I'm writing a science fiction action thriller that's kicking my ass. After the first draft, which was sh*t, I realized my basic premise was too convoluted, so I began to simplify it. Now I seem to be stuck in a revision cycle that looks like this: find a gaping plot hole, adjust the world-building to close the hole, introduce a new hole, drink, repeat.

    I've narrowed this situation down to three possibilities:
    1. this is an aspect of the genre, so suck it up and keep working out those plot holes until it's tight.
    2. I'm way over-thinking this thing - it's too plot-heavy and I need to dumb it down until it works itself out.
    3. the premise is fundamentally broken and I need to move on to the next project (which is tempting but also a clever way to procrastinate).

    So without knowing details about the project, can anyone familiar with the genre offer some perspective?

  • #2
    Re: Over-complicated plot?

    Working for a producer that kind of specializes in sci-fi and working in the development department, I think if you can't explain your movie in a logline, then at least be able to explain your hook in a sentence or two.

    So without knowing anything about your project, I can say that I would erase option 3 from your list. I actually think #1 is the best bet to work with since it is the only option that actually involve some good ol fashion hard brain work.

    Good luck.

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    • #3
      Re: Over-complicated plot?

      Believe me, I have been where you are, to the point where I could only describe the first half of the script in a logline -- and it took me MONTHS...I'm telling you MONTHS to even make that happen. The script still turned out great (imho) in the end.

      If you are going to write something with a convoluted plot, as I did, you must take a lot of time outlining. I spent two months just outlining. It saved me many a headache. Did I still find plot holes? Yes, but I was able to fix them well enough without throwing everything else out of whack because I spent so much time doing that prep work.

      I suggest you take a step back entirely and go back to outlining. Don't work on writing the thing...just outline. Figure everything out outside of the script. Once that happens, only then should you go back to really writing/rewriting it. Believe me, it will help.

      INT. PINEAPPLE - DAY


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      • #4
        Re: Over-complicated plot?

        First thing I'd consider is your audience. If your writing for the standard 18-24 demographic with a sci-fi flick and you, the writer, are finding it convoluted it's probably not going to play well in the theater.

        Figure out what the story is REALLY about and then simplify the rst.
        If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base.
        Dave Barry

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        • #5
          Re: Over-complicated plot?

          If you step back and look at it logically, the last thing you want to do is go back to outlining.

          From what you have described (If one hole introduces another hole, then another etc) its fundamentally flawed and you need to move on. Especially if the script is kicking your ass.
          http://thekillbox.wordpress.com/

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          • #6
            Re: Over-complicated plot?

            I think outlining is crucial at this stage. This guy is going back and writing whole scenes before realizing that they have created new plot holes. He's gone beyond the pale here, we need to bring him back from the brink.

            Basically, it's hard to screw up an airtight outline. If you can get a story synopsis working like a well oiled machine before going back to the actual screenwriting, you'll be kicking ass instead of getting your ass kicked. I've been working on a science fiction screenplay with a fairly unsaleable concept for about four years, and almost all of that has been research and outlining. When I tried to actually write the screenplay early in the process, I wrote stupid action scenes. When I took another go recently I came up with the best and most intelligent work I've ever produced in any medium. I had to put the project on the back burner for something else, but I will get back to it whenever possible. It has a number of factors against it from a marketing standpoint, but I have utter confidence that the story works.

            So you have a decision to make.

            You used the words "basic premise was too convoluted" and "the premise is fundamentally broken". If there's no way to fix the core story without starting over then you already have your answer. The world doesn't need more half baked sci-fi. If your premise is in fact not broken but just hard to describe to someone or anti-commercial, then don't sweat it. At least you have your pride.

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            • #7
              Re: Over-complicated plot?

              "science fiction action thriller" was my first clue that you might have a problem. trying to do four genres in one script may be biting off more than you can chew.

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              • #8
                Re: Over-complicated plot?

                Great feedback, all. Thank you.

                I have to admit, I'm still a little muddled on certain genre definitions. Perhaps a more accurate description would be "near-future action/adventure".

                My first clue that I was in trouble was when I realized I couldn't logline it. Working that out helped tremendously and I think I've got one that works. The second major revelation was when I realized I had no central opposition. It was still a "shadow organization" kind of thing - I'd broken the cardinal rule of having a single representative. In this case, since the Boss character is unknown until Act 3 (maybe 2B), I decided to use a henchman to serve as the focal point, similar to the mugger in Ghost. That also helped a great deal.

                Right now it's all about the worldbuilding. Instead of saying "what if we were all avatars" or "what if everyone was a vampire" or "what if you could be arrested for future crimes", I'm using all of them at once (not these particular examples, though that could be interesting). A director once told me "One magic per story," but I've got several.

                My hunch is that if I can weed-whack a few of those and pare the premise down to one magic, then things will fall into place, assuming that premise still supports the plot. At least that's what I'm going with. But it sounds like action movies can be a little plotty to begin with, so that's giving me a better sense of where to find the point of diminishing returns.

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                • #9
                  Re: Over-complicated plot?

                  sometimes a rewrite really does start on page 1. but it's hard for people to really say without knowing your story. i suggest you try your logline in the logline section if you haven't done so yet. i also suggest you invest in this book, anatomy of a screenplay http://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Screen.../dp/096657320X it's very good and showing you how to map and eliminate story holes with proper set up and pay off of each character and situation.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Over-complicated plot?

                    Originally posted by NikeeGoddess View Post
                    sometimes a rewrite really does start on page 1. but it's hard for people to really say. i suggest you try your logline in the logline section if you haven't done so yet. i also suggest you invest in this book, anatomy of a screenplay http://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Screen.../dp/096657320X it's very good and showing you how to map and eliminate story holes with proper set up and pay off of each character and situation.
                    That's flawed advice. No book can help anyone become a better writer or know how to perfectly create their screenplay.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Over-complicated plot?

                      the book is just a plot mapping tool to use when your story is over complicated. i wasn't suggesting he use it to become a better writer. where did you get that?

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                      • #12
                        Re: Over-complicated plot?

                        Did you purchase that book? Has it worked for you?

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                        • #13
                          Re: Over-complicated plot?

                          yes. i used it to help rewrite an overly complicated script. and i wouldn't have suggested it if i hadn't thought it useful.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Over-complicated plot?

                            Quoting ap0110:

                            “Right now it's all about the worldbuilding. Instead of saying "what if we were all avatars" or "what if everyone was a vampire" or "what if you could be arrested for future crimes", I'm using all of them at once (not these particular examples, though that could be interesting).”
                            ---------------------------------------------------------
                            Don’t overlook the possibility that the crux of all your problems is that you’re actually writing two or three stand-alone movies in this one script. This is a very common trap that newer writers get themselves into -- a well-intended, irresistible compulsion to pour all (or far too many) of their very original and exciting genre ideas into the plot of a single script.

                            Clever turns, characters, devices, and motivations often then spin off tangentially and ruin the story’s coherence, logic and spine adhesion. Sub-plots (a different issue) are fine and necessary, but failure to spot the common syndrome I’m describing can cause a writer needless grief and not uncommonly -- a completely unworkable and unmarketable script that promises only reader and audience confusion.

                            Talented screenwriters, whether new, emerging, or working pros are almost invariably wired a bit differently than most people in one important respect: they’ve got tons of ideas, and imagined worlds -- with well-imagined rules for each -- being born continually and fighting for space in their minds (and demanding immediate or eventual expression).

                            Do the following, ap0110: try to view your problematic existing plot as abundant elements of 2 or 3 distinct stories, each quite satisfying, intriguing, entertaining and complete on its own with only moderate development and theme focusing.

                            If you can do that, the syndrome I’ve described is probably the curable problem you haven’t been aware of. And upon perceiving it, you may be on the way to writing not one flawed, potentially confusing thriller or sci-fi, but instead two or three very well written and marketable screenplays in the same or even disparate genres.

                            Ernie

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                            • #15
                              Re: Over-complicated plot?

                              Originally posted by Ribeau View Post
                              That's flawed advice. No book can help anyone become a better writer or know how to perfectly create their screenplay.
                              I feel like I'm having a discussion with my high school aged daughter about why studying and education aren't necessary.

                              Your mistaken. Of course books can teach you how to be a better writer. They can teach you how to develop your character, how to structure your story, and ways to develop your talent.

                              Your confusing talent with skill. No book can teach a writer talent, but they can teach a talented writer ways to hone that innate skill to really tell a story.
                              If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base.
                              Dave Barry

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