Paranoia - paranoia - paranoia

Re: U.S. Copyright is best protection

Dear ksk2:

You wrote:

"And the 'chances' are 'slim' re the people/positions YOU are talking about, yes; not writers that SUBMIT material to the people you're talking about.

Writers who rip are different to people who can write a check-for-the-idea metaphor that you offered, Jeff."

Gotta be honest...I couldn't really follow your post. It had a sort of "All Your Rip-off Are Belong To Us" feel

I think the point that you were making had to do with knowing to whom you're submitting. If that was the point, I totally agree.

I still believe that the best protection available is to write something great and spend your time and energies submitting it to agents and managers for representation, not producers. More claims of "I got ripped off" probably come from writers who submitted to producers who accept unsolicited scripts than from writers whose scripts went through an agent or manager's office.

If in doubt, don't submit remains the best advice.

JEFF SCHECHTER
www.totallywrite.com

Re: U.S. Copyright is best protection

"Again, the odds of getting ripped off are slim. If you've got a script or a concept so great or intriguing and it could be gotten from you for a song, why rip you off?"

Depends on the country or countries involvesd, Jeff.

The Call (as I listed above) came from Croc Dundee Land. I'm sure that the Writer/Director assumed that since they were in a small pool with small fish, no-one would ever notice.

@#%$ THEM.

And I still hope that the owners of the rights to the original T Zone version hears of it and sues them into 3 generations of the Poor House. PERIOD.

And the "chances" are "slim" re the people/positions YOU are talking about, yes; not writers that SUBMIT material to the people you're talking about.

Writers who rip are different to people who can write a check-for-the-idea metaphor that you offered, Jeff.

Regarding this subject, it's the same as with writing: CONTEXT is EVERYTHING.

Re: U.S. Copyright is best protection

US Copyright vs WGA vs Protectrite...

I'm always willing to believe an attorney's advice over anecdotal information, even my own. I just honestly don't know any working writer who registers material with the US Copyright office (not work-fo-hire scripts, but specs). Usually it's just WGA. Often it's nothing. If you've got an agent or a manager and they keep the notes they're supposed to, you have a pretty good paper trail of submissions.

Again, the odds of getting ripped off are slim. If you've got a script or a concept so great or intriguing and it could be gotten from you for a song, why rip you off?

I certainly could be out to lunch on this...all I know is what's common practice in my limited circle.

JEFF SCHECHTER
www.totallywrite.com

Re: U.S. Copyright is best protection

DWB...I agree with your remark about attorney advice. I've had several attorney friends, including my own Entertainment Lawyer, who have all been adamant in registering material with the U.S. Copyright Office as opposed to the WGA.

Re: U.S. Copyright is best protection

WGA registration is not worth the $20 dollars it costs. You should not be worried about datestamping your material unless you wrote it yesterday and are sending it all over town today.

Registering with the U.S. Copyright Office is the ONLY way to protect your copyright. Period. The WGA is only for establishing a date of creation.

In my experience, no one cares whether the script is registered with the WGA. What they do care about is copyright. And while your copyright automatically attaches to your work the minute you put it down on paper, your rights are not 100% secure until you register it.

I'm not trying to get personal on Jeff Schecter, but to advocate that WGA registration is all that you need is wrong. Ask any attorney who knows anything about intellectual property.

Re: U.S. Copyright is best protection

Jeff, the use of electrnic means i.e. e-mail for copyright also depends on ones job to a degree. In my case being a professional engineeer - any document that I sent from my work account is automatically copyrightted and will hold up in a court of law.

The flipside, is that many a lawsuit has stemmed from a engineer sending incorrect information over e-mail to a client etc. Most people think - oh that's just an internal e-mail - no one sees that. Not so - one of my bosses just got a call about an internal e-mail he responded ( some detail about a process system decision) five years ago. Each e-mail is being used in court case by a digruntled client. Real eye opener. These lawyers sifted though almost 4000 e-mail documents.

I'm not entirely sure how it might apply universally, but I know that the laws for electronic e-mail are seeing new legislation around copyright, legal accountability etc.

For me - I register with the WGAE first, then make sure to send a few e-mail copies of the script to my "reader" - one of which is my agent/editor. She replies back with note confirming that she received the notice of copyright.

Someone does steal my "idea" (though as I said to St Rouge - can't really re-invent the wheel, but you can put sparkling new hubcaps on it) I'm well covered.

Re: U.S. Copyright is best protection

Thanks for your reply Jeff and Tony.

Actually, I was throwing the idea much more as an ideological statement than a practical one. With digital technologies gaining in importance and all, we constantly have to redefine the way business is done and what was once invalid, may suddenly gain credibility. Just musing.

Jacinthe

Re: U.S. Copyright is best protection

Jacinthe,

To add to what Jeff wrote, you also have to take into account the fact that threads are automatically deleted from the board when a forum becomes full, and thus the "period of proof" might be considerably shorter than an actual WGA registration, and especially an official US Copyright registration, which lasts a lifetime. Of course, you could always have Will save your posts somehow, or he could save everything from the Loglines and Script Pages forum into a non-postable archive forum of some sort. Something along those lines. But it still might not hold up in court.


Tony

Re: U.S. Copyright is best protection

jacinthee writes...

"But since we're talking about (electronic) date and time stamping, paradoxically, wouldn't posting something on a board be a proof of the existence of specific material at a given time?"

Yes and no. It creates a "paper-trail" but probably wouldn't hold up too well in court. Places like NCR, FirstUse, et al are recognized for their ability to timestamp material in a legally unquestioned manner.

Regards,

JEFF SCHECHTER
www.totallywrite.com

Re: U.S. Copyright is best protection

Well put, Jeff.

****

On a purely speculative tangent, I started toying with the following concept. I agree with being extra careful about what one posts on an electronic board. But since we're talking about (electronic) date and time stamping, paradoxically, wouldn't posting something on a board be a proof of the existence of specific material at a given time?

I'm far from suggesting we should start using DD as a "copyright" instead of, say, the WGA, put I'm just wondering if such reasoning would have any judicial merit (or could in the future).

Jacinthe

Re: U.S. Copyright is best protection

i register with the national creative registrar. their website has an electronic registration system where you upload the file for electronic date and time stamping as well.

htttp://www.ncronline.com

final draft 5 users will find this service directly available under your "register this script" function in your file menu.

Re: U.S. Copyright is best protection

TopCat,

Jeff is right. By the way your're not receiving a copyright. Your work, by definition, is copyrighted the moment you right it. You're registering your copyrighted material at the U.S. Copyright office. It's a legal datestamp of your work for lawsuit purposes, as is the WGA and other services mentioned by Jeff.

Agents, managers, and production companies require that datestamp for their protection, should they entertain purchasing it. Using one will satisfy them.

Rat

Re: U.S. Copyright is best protection

The only thing registering a script does (the only thing it needs to do) is establish that on such-and-such a date, such-and-such material existed. Don't waste the time, money and effort getting a US copyright. WGA is more than adequate, as are FirstUse and ProtectRite.

I think things have to be looked at in context. How many ideas really get ripped-off? The only things that makes the papers are the rare times it happens. The odds of getting ripped-off are so slim as to be statistically insignificant.

The question came up a few weeks ago in a seminar I gave. A woman asked me about getting ripped off. I asked her "If I gave you $3000 dollars right now for your idea...took out my checkbook and wrote the check right here...would you sell it to me?" She thought for a moment and said "Yes." I told her that if I knew that I could buy almost any idea from almost any aspiring writer for a few thousand dollars, why would I rip off that idea and expose myself to thousands, upon thousands of dollars of expense defending myself in a lawsuit?

The best defense against being ripped off is to know with whom you're dealing. Don't send anything...scripts... loglines...doodles on napkins...to anyone unless you are comfortable with who they are and what they claim to be. If you're the least little bit wary, don't submit.

A good criteria is credits. If their credits are solid and they've worked with reputable companies, then they probably won't want to jeopardize their relationships with the bad press and stink of a lawsuit. These are good places to submit stuff to.

On the other hand, if they're credits are non-existent or in lower-profile markets (adult movies, low-budget slasher, low-budget almost anything), you should be more cautious. Don't avoid them, just be more cautious.

My advice is not to spend another minute of valuable writing time worrying about getting ripped off. Write something great that will attract reputable agents and solid producers. That's all the protection you will ever need.

I hope this helps.

JEFF SCHECHTER
www.totallywrite.com

P.S. Check "Let's Do Dinner!" in the Services & Opportunities forum.

U.S. Copyright is best protection

I read a quote from an entertainment lawyer some time ago that the best protection is from the U.S.Copyright office. Probably best to go both Copyright AND WGA. Kind of a pain in the wallet, though...

Loved reading Shatterday

And enjoyed the Twilight Zone episode. Especially the part at the beginning Where Harlan gets appropriate credit.

Harlan's a real hoot in person, too. So mellow and laid back. Especially during his panel discussions. :lol