3 act structure

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  • #61
    Re: Re: 3 ACTS

    Itâ€TMs not set in stone, but in a 2 hour movie itâ€TMs usually 30/60/30 for the 3 act breaks. indy packing his suitcase lands at about the 20 minute mark, marion picking up the headpiece from the snow comes at 33. and raiders has an overly long ordinary world mini-movie at the start (roughly 10 minutes) that has little to do with the MDQ.

    The army intelligence guys are heralds, issuing indy the call to adventure. marion and the nazis are threshold guardians, stopping indy from crossing the point of no return and committing to the heroâ€TMs journey. the headpiece is the key that lets indy cross the threshold and begin the search for the ark.

    In order for the love subplot to work he has to meet marion in the first act. itâ€TMs the same with his arch-nemesis belloq, we have to meet him in the first act in order for it to arc through the story.

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    • #62
      Re: 3 ACTS

      Harbonic,

      In order for the love subplot to work he has to meet Marion in the first act.
      Why?

      Could you define MDQ. I'm not familiar.

      When Indy steals the crown artifact from the Chinese, this is his point of no return IMO. Indy goes to the Raven to get the next piece of his puzzle on his quest. When he arrives at the Raven he doesn't realize that Marion's father died. Marion tells Indy this. Marion brings up baggage from their past and tells Indy, 'You owe me.' First complication of the second act is Marion. Why can't the love subplot begin here?

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      • #63
        Re: 3 ACTS

        Anymore, it seems like people feel like they are 'selling out' when they adhere to the three act structure, like they should be more creative in their structure. But that's assanine. There's plenty room for creativity and ground breaking within.

        I personally look at stories as having four parts, and that's how I write mine, but I know my parts two and three would be considered Act II.

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        • #64
          Re: Re: 3 ACTS

          MDQ is Major Dramatic Question.

          The MDQ in Raiders is: Will Indy get the Ark before the Nazis? The question is brought into focus at his home when Marcus informs him that they want him to go for it. The quest for the Ark begins then, and that launches the story into Act II.

          The bar scene raises new obstacles--mainly Marion. Indy's relationship with her presents obstacles to his pursuit of the Ark.

          The medalion is simply a tool for finding the Ark. Obtaining it is a smaller obstacle that must be overcome in order to achieve the ultimate goal and answer the MDQ.

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          • #65
            Re: 3 ACTS

            Prescribe got it right.

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            • #66
              Re: Re: 3 ACTS

              Hmmm, yes, yes. Since the MDQ is answered when Indy and Marion lift the Ark. Act 3 begins in the scene when a fire is consuming an area with ammunition crates and fuel tanks.

              Act three in Raiders of the Lost Ark is about ten minutes.

              (Scenes counted on the script posted at Simply Scripts.)

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              • #67
                Re: Re: 3 ACTS

                Act Two ends when Indie and Marion are tossed into the snake pit. The Nazis have the arc and appear to have won. Everything appears hopeless to Indie. Act Three begins next when Indies must muster all the strength and wit to escape the snake pit and work toward the final resolution of the story.

                I don't think it was Indie's objective to keep the Nazis from getting the arc as much as it was getting the arc for the university. In the beginning he did not believe in the power of the arc and just wanted it for it's historical value. I know it's a fine point, but it helps to define the acts (and his arc).

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                • #68
                  Re: 3 ACTS

                  it just doesn't make sense to me that packing a suitcase is the ACT I climax. i mean, which is more like a climax; a guy talking to his friend and throwing things in a carry-all; or a knock down, drag out bar fight with a bunch of nazis?

                  When Indy steals the crown artifact from the Chinese, this is his point of no return IMO. Indy goes to the Raven to get the next piece of his puzzle on his quest.
                  rose, there is no scene with the chinese general in the final movie. i know the script you're referring to, i've got it as well. that part doesn't actually happen, it goes:

                  army intelligence guys.
                  packing and the flight sequence.
                  marion's bar and the fight.

                  so, by your own rationale, getting the idol from marion is indy's point of no return. and crossing the point of no return (the first threshold) signals the end of ACT I.

                  Why can't the love subplot begin here?
                  the first act sets up:
                  marion as a love interest
                  belloq as the anti-indy, his shadow
                  the nazis as a highly capable and ruthless enemy (they found marion and were willing to sacrifice their own men)

                  i've always been taught and understood that if you want to include a major subplot you need to have it arc through all three acts. it's like:

                  1st act: boy meets girl.
                  2nd act: boy loses girl.
                  3rd act: boy gets girl back.

                  The medalion is simply a tool for finding the Ark.
                  yes. but, it's the key to indy committing to the hero's journey. he knows he needs it, because without it he would never find the ark buried beneath the desert. indy has to earn the right to begin the journey, he has to prove himself as a hero in order to get the key, the medallion.

                  lucas is a big supporter of the "hero with a thousand faces" mythos and has featured it heavily in most of his movies (i'm not so sure about howard the duck...)

                  ordinary world - getting the idol and then teaching his class.
                  call to adventure - army intelligence guys
                  refusal of the call - scene with marcus where he wonders if marion will be there
                  meeting with the mentor - goes to meet ravenswood, but find out he's dead.
                  first threshold - marion refuses to give him the medallion. indy fights with the nazis and gets the medallion.

                  i'm not saying that i'm right, or arguing to be difficult, but this is what i believe, so if i'm wrong it's better to find out now. :P

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                  • #69
                    Re: Re: 3 ACTS

                    Since I haven't watched this movie in ages and don't remember all the scenes I must stop here. This thread is interesting and has continued with great feedback by all.

                    Everyone has made their point(s) and followed up with their reasoning. A fun, informative discussion.

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                    • #70
                      Re: 3 ACTS

                      For Act one, say....for example?

                      In terms of page reference, opening scene hints
                      about making the guy making a "big deal", at Page
                      10 the deals been set up, but we still don't know
                      what it is (drugs, criminal, legit).

                      Then at end of page 30 (act 1), we know what the
                      deal is, its landed him in big @#%$ and there's a well
                      defined bad guy?

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                      • #71
                        Re: Re: 3 ACTS

                        Don't think that climax is a synonym for "big action". Better yet, if the term confuses you, replace "climax" with "turning point" and think about what that means.

                        What is the turning point at the end of act one that contains the characters action/choice that defines the new direction of the story, firmly establishing the dramatic goal and stakes which raises the MDQ?

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