What do "real" characters sound like?

[sumokurt1]

I've read so many books that advise paring down the dialogue, adhering to the finger rule, even to cut lines by a single syllable if possible. So I do all that and then readers say my dialogue is too terse and staccato, and that none of my characters sound like real persons. Meanwhile, a completely different reader will say the exact same section is too bloated and needs to be cut more. WTF!

[giuseppeways]

Re: What do "real" characters sound like?

Honestly, scriptwriters need something to complain about to feel better about themselves. No matter how good the dialog is or how bad it is, some homie will have something to say about it. Just make sure you rely heavily on subtext and more importantly, your dialog has a nice sound to it. Don't worry about if the characters sound the same etc. 'cos really, anything remotely commercial/marketable are like that. And that's what you should be writing :-)

All you can really do lol

[prescribe22]

Re: What do "real" characters sound like?

Read lots of scripts. There's really no better advice.

It's hard to concern yourself with good dialogue because that's subjective.

What you should look for is *effective* dialogue.

Characters in scripts have to give more information than someone in real life. But there's less time to do it.

Pro scripts are a great reference because experienced scribes have honed their craft (presumably) and they know how to efficiently and creatively deliver exposition.

There's no rule or trick to it because every character and every exchange creates its own unique demands.

[Biohazard]

Re: What do "real" characters sound like?

Read scripts.

Watch movies.

Post some pages here for evaluation.

[sc111]

Re: What do "real" characters sound like?

I've decided to ignore the damn rules and let it rip. I'm currently writing dialogue I would have never dared to use before for fear of angering the screenwriting book gods. I. Don't. Care. Anymore. I advise everyone to let it rip -- you can always go back and tweak.

From my in-progress heist script:

Doorman flips through the guest list.

BOSTON
A Honda? In East Hampton? Case solved.
You'll get on Larry King for this.
(off Doorman's icy glare)
Jäeger. There's an umlaut over the
letter A.
(Doorman scans list again)
Derived from the word jäegen. To hunt.
An occupational surname. In fact, many
German names are. The work ethic thing.
Faulkner, the falconer. Grebner, the
grave digger. Schumacher, an obvious one.
And Jäeger, the hunter --

DOORMAN
Nope - not here. Get in your ride. Go.


From my in-progress thriller set in 2040 Brooklyn.

Jean - remains motionless, eyes on Rennie. Stone just takes it all in.

RENNIE
(to Stone)
Look at her. Measuring me. Measuring
the odds against getting out of this.
She's good. Really good. Did I mention
she used to be one of New York's finest?

Stone almost raises an eyebrow. Rennie swivels toward Jean.

RENNIE
Sorry, babe. It's either this gig or
no gig. The stockholders have a tighter
grip on my balls than the promise of
your sweet ass ever did --


From my in-progress female lead western set in 1893:

CONSTANCE
The gardener knows every seedling
has potential to bloom. Male seeds
and female seeds alike. So they're
tended equally. Water. Good earth --

MR. TROY
Manure.

CONSTANCE
That too, sir. But imagine a
garden where only male seedlings
were allowed to grow.

[odriftwood]

Re: What do "real" characters sound like?

No idea what any of those scripts are about but gotta tell you from the snipets I've dialogue I'd be curious to read the rest. A lot of times I come across dialogue that is actually well written but the characters have nothing to say... if that makes any sense. What you've shown in those examples is that your characters have something to say... keep it up.

[sc111]

Re: What do "real" characters sound like?

No idea what any of those scripts are about but gotta tell you from the snipets I've dialogue I'd be curious to read the rest. A lot of times I come across dialogue that is actually well written but the characters have nothing to say... if that makes any sense. What you've shown in those examples is that your characters have something to say... keep it up.

Thanks. A tool I use is casting the actor in my head and using the cadence they bring to other roles.

Boston: Robert Downey Jr.

Rennie: Jack Nicholson

Constance: Keira Knightley in Pride & Prejudice

It really, really helps prevent against all charcaters souding alike - or worse - all sounding like me.

[12916studios]

Re: What do "real" characters sound like?

That's really some amazing dialogue, sc111. I too would love to read thos scripts merely based off the dialogue.

[sc111]

Re: What do "real" characters sound like?

Wow - didn't expect so much love. I posted the dialogue because I felt the original poster's pain:

I've read so many books that advise paring down the dialogue, adhering to the finger rule, even to cut lines by a single syllable if possible. So I do all that and then readers say my dialogue is too terse and staccato, and that none of my characters sound like real persons. Meanwhile, a completely different reader will say the exact same section is too bloated and needs to be cut more. WTF!

I know! I used to angst over dialogue that went more than 3 lines deep. Editing, editing, so it "looked" terse and framed by white space so the studio reader could easily read down the middle. But doing so sucked the life out of it.

I decided to rebel. Lately I seem to go out of my way to break all the always/never rules. The joy has returned.

Edited to add:

Oh, and another rule I'm breaking -- working 3 scripts in 3 different genres. Screw it.

[BattleDolphinZero]

Re: What do "real" characters sound like?

I've read so many books that advise paring down the dialogue, adhering to the finger rule, even to cut lines by a single syllable if possible. So I do all that and then readers say my dialogue is too terse and staccato, and that none of my characters sound like real persons. Meanwhile, a completely different reader will say the exact same section is too bloated and needs to be cut more. WTF!

This is, overall, retarded "advice."

Retarded.

The only merit to it is that dialogue tends to move smoother when it's short exchanges but there are SO MANY writers who write in big blocks of dialogue and it sounds great.

[cupertinoCA]

Re: What do "real" characters sound like?

there isn't anything particularly "wrong" with each line of your dialogue. it's the scene. it's the way the characters interact with each other.

they talk about the story rather than be in it.

[Ulysses]

Re: What do "real" characters sound like?

I've read so many books that advise paring down the dialogue, adhering to the finger rule, even to cut lines by a single syllable if possible. So I do all that and then readers say my dialogue is too terse and staccato, and that none of my characters sound like real persons. Meanwhile, a completely different reader will say the exact same section is too bloated and needs to be cut more. WTF!

And how much success did the authors of those books have at writing dialogue?

There is no recipe for writing style.

When Raymond Chandler wrote his novels, nobody talked like that. But the dialogue was so great that soon everybody talked like Chandler's novels.

Look at Joseph Conrad. Being from Poland, English was his second language, and that resulted in a very particular style. Can you imagine what would have happened if he had tried to write smooth English like everybody else? The "Heart of Darkness" would have become the "Candy Store Popsicle". Books on writing get you started. If you don't get rid of those training wheels, you'll never come to riding.

Write the dialogue as you want it to, based on your ideas and perception. If it sucks, find out why.

Do you think your dialogue sucks? You have only said so far that others think it does. And that you try to adapt to their opinion.

There are two kinds of writers: 1. Imitators, that can quite well write like somebody else and this is often mistaken for talent. 2. Real writers, who probably produce more garbage than the imitators, as they have to write trough pages of garbage to find out what they want to write and how they want to write it.

So, if you are a writer of the second type and try to adapt to what other people tell you, you'll not only destroy your talent, you'll also never go anywhere.

Being a writer, in my opinion, is a fate thing. You learn who you are and then you try to run with it.

I think a writer who hits his head a dozen times when he crashes into walls (don't try this literally at home) is more promising to me than the smooth operators of craft.

Be true to your voice, no matter how it sounds. Don't throw this away. Nobody can help you with writing. You have to figure it out yourself and make your own decisions.

Good luck.

[NoTalentAssClown]

Re: What do "real" characters sound like?

Write how people talk.

Boom, outta here.

[jonpiper]

Re: What do "real" characters sound like?

RENNIE
(to Stone)
Look at her. Measuring me. Measuring
the odds against getting out of this.
She's good. Really good. Did I mention
she used to be one of New York's finest?

Stone almost raises an eyebrow. Rennie swivels toward Jean.

RENNIE
Sorry, babe. It's either this gig or
no gig. The stockholders have a tighter
grip on my balls than the promise of
your sweet ass ever did --

Sumokurt1, SC111 has written some great dialogue.

Her samples show that you shouldn't try to make your screenplay characters say what real people say.

Screenplay characters are not real people. They are reel people, bigger than life. They are people (characters) in the idealized world of our screenplays.

True, we make them sound authentic by capturing real dialects and accents. But the words, the thoughts our characters utter are well chosen and thought out according to how the dialogue will serve the story.

[bioprofessor]

Re: What do "real" characters sound like?

Screenplay characters are not real people. They are reel people, bigger than life. They are people (characters) in the idealized world of our screenplays.

True, we make them sound authentic by capturing real dialects and accents. But the words, the thoughts our characters utter are well chosen and thought out according to how the dialogue will serve the story.

jonp-

I agree with 95% of what you've stated. However, when I'm writing, I think of my characters as real, even ordinary people who've been thrust into some type of extraordinary (and I'm not just talking explosions and chase scenes) circumstance, either of their own doing or by accident. I'm not sure they always need to become "bigger than life" to overcome their challenges. I think stories like Crazy Heart and Life is Beautiful demonstrate this.