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  • Protag/Antag question

    When you have a movie, say, like Freaky Friday, where the characters have equal parts and equal goals, do you call both the mother and daughter protagonist and antagonist at the same time?

  • #2
    I always thought that in Freaky Friday the SWITCH is the antagonist like the TIME MACHINE is the antagonist in Back To The Future. It is the SWITCH that is stopping the daughter from playing the gig and she has to reverse the switch in order to achieve her goal.

    The mother in Freaky Friday is the nemesis. Someone who creates and antagonistic force but is not the cause or agent of the primary antagonistic force.

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    • #3
      Yeah, those damned switches. Always causing trouble.

      /shakes head

      Sub or dom, folks. Sub or dom. You can't be both and be serious about either.

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      • #4
        jack

        ff has a dual protagonist set up. antogonist is not a person. force of antagonism is internal (desire to be something other than what we are). this is the 'man against himself' fight with a dash of 'man against nature' thrown in


        zilla

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        • #5
          can you have dual protags? I understand two characters having a common goal, but aren't all stories told from a perspective of one person?

          Even if the actions of other character are shown without the Protag, isn't still from the perspective of them? As the author sympathizes with the protag all along.

          Iâ€TMm sure Iâ€TMve read this before but wonder what everyone thinks about this

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          • #6
            Unless the two people are effectively acting as one person with the same internal and external conflicts, chances are there is a protagonist and a supporting secondary character.

            In FF the protagonist is the kid.

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            • #7
              The answer is a resounding yes yes yes. The girl and the mother are both the protagonist and the antagonist.

              Freaky Friday is the sort of movie where you can route for either the girl or the mother.

              In relative to the mom the daughter is clearly the antagonist however in relative to the daughter the mother is clearly the antagonist. So either of them can be the antagonist.

              For those who say the switch is the antagonist I would say no.

              The switch is not the true antagonist because its not what is peventing these two from coming together. The switch is suppose to help these two reach their goals by uniting mother and daughter. That was the whole point.

              The bad relationship between the daughter in the mother is the true antagonist and it takes two to tango!

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              • #8
                In relative to the mom the daughter is clearly the antagonist however in relative to the daughter the mother is clearly the antagonist. So either of them can be the antagonist.
                The same argument could be made for Luke and Vader or McLean and Hans. The antagonist views the protagonist as the enemy and vice versa.

                What it comes down to is whose story is being told.

                Star Wars is telling Luke's story as he struggles to deliver the Death Star plans and save the Rebels from the Empire.

                Die Hard is telling McLean's story as he struggles to rescue his wife and stop Hans.

                In Freaky Friday the hero's goal is not to untie with her mother, her goal is to play with her band in the club. Her mother is certainly an obstacle to that goal but the MAIN antagonistic force and source of the MAIN conflict which defines the direction of the story is the Switch and the struggle to undo the switch so she can play in the show. Yes the mother has a goal of her own and a subplot in which the girl is an obstacle but the source of the MAIN conflict and antagonistic force to her goal of getting married is the switch.


                Just as the time machine is the cause of the main conflict in Back To The Future which is preventing Marty from getting home, the switch is preventing the girl from being able to live her life the way she wants and being able to play with her band at the club.

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                • #9
                  Dualing protags

                  Most romantic comedies have dual protagonists. That's what makes them work. Although obviously the story is tilted, with these types of movies we need to know as much about "HARRY" as we do about "SALLY."

                  Think about it. Don't you know as much about Julia Robert's character in PRETTY WOMAN as you do about Richard Gere's character? Same for SPALSH, SLEEPLESS IN SEATTLE, MY BEST FRIENDS WEDDING etc. Of course that's romantic comdies....

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                  • #10
                    Re: Dualing protags

                    Gere is the protagonist in Pretty Woman.
                    Hanks is the protagonist in Splash and Sleepless.
                    Roberts is the protagonist in MBFW.

                    Rom-coms don't work because they have two protagonists, which they don't, they work because the story is sufficiently romantic and comedic to make the coupling desirable and entertain for the audience.

                    In most conventional rom-coms, the love interest is the antagonist, making the goals and actions of the hero intertwined with that of the antagonist.

                    In Splash, Hanks wants a normal predictable life, the mermaid wants a wild crazy free spirited life.

                    In Pretty Woman Gere wants a girl on his arm who he can control and use to prevent any distractions and interference with his plans. Roberts wants more than to be treated as a rented piece of meat and wants to engage Gere emotionally which causes distractions and interference with his plans.

                    Sleepless is a non-traditional structure that uses Hank's son as the antagonist. Hanks wants to put his wife's death behind him, to never talk about it and go one without a wife. The Son forces Hanks to talk about the death and to seek a new wife and mother.

                    Don't be confused by screen time or likability of the actors. To locate the protagonist and antagonist you have to dig into the dramatic structure of the story.

                    Locate the conflict that is driving the story and it's source - that is the antagonist.

                    Locate the person incited by the main conflict, the one whose actions advance the plot and ultimately resolve the main conflict - that is the protagonist.

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                    • #11
                      For Deus

                      -The same argument could be made for Luke and Vader or McLean and Hans. The antagonist views the protagonist as the enemy and vice versa.

                      desmas
                      True but star wars isn't told through Vaders eyes. In Freaky Friday the perspective of the story is equally shared between the two characters. Thus the demnsion of the story is split.

                      - In Freaky Friday the hero's goal is not to untie with her mother, her goal is to play with her band in the club.

                      - That is just one of her goals. The other goals where to survive a day in her mothers body, to get along with her kid brother and to get the man of her dreams.

                      The true goal of Linzy's character (daughter) is to learn to build good relationships with the people around her.


                      - Her mother is certainly an obstacle to that goal but the MAIN antagonistic force and source of the MAIN conflict which defines the direction of the story is the Switch and the struggle to undo the switch so she can play in the show.

                      I disagree, the daughter was still trapped in her mothers body when she played in the show. Nothing had changed except for one thing. The relationship between the mother and daughter was different. Instead of opposing one another which was the cause of the switch in the first place, they learned to work as a team to help each other get what they want.

                      It was the relationship between them that was the true obstacle to over come not the switch.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Dualing protags

                        There can be more than one protagonist in a story.

                        - Gere is the protagonist in Pretty Woman.
                        Hanks is the protagonist in Splash and Sleepless.
                        Roberts is the protagonist in MBFW.

                        Gere and Roberts are both the protagonist
                        Hanks and Meg are both the protagonist.

                        Let's define what the protagonist is. It is not necessarily who's perspective we see more but it is who we feel ourselves connected with.

                        In Shaw Shank Redemption Andy is clearly the protagonist but we see the story mainly through Red's perspective. Infact Andy dissapears completely two thirds into the movie but the movie never ceases not to involve Andy some how.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Dualing protags

                          Except, Andy isn't the protagonist. Red is. At the end of the day, it's not Andy who went on a character arc, it was Red.

                          It was not Andy who found redemption. It was Red.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Dualing protags

                            Andy is the protagonist because the movie is about Andy not Red.

                            Red is simply the narrator who tells Andy's story. Without Andy there is no Shaw Shank redemption there is no story.

                            Where Red was ready to become industrialize it was Andy who lead the way to freedom.

                            In a movie all hopes really on the protagonist.

                            The biggest mistake for most writers is to think that the protagonist needs to be in every scene. A great writer can see the big picture can see the movie as a story not as a character. The protagonist is added at the most crucial points not in every scene.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Dualing protags

                              Sorry for the double reply.

                              Andy was not redeemed? How can you say that of course Andy was redeemed.

                              A man who doubted his own innocences and who became enslave by the warden Nortan.

                              Andy needed to reclaim his innocence in his own heart and some how break out of Shaw Shank.

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