'The protagonist turns out to be a whacko' syndrome

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  • 'The protagonist turns out to be a whacko' syndrome

    We've been talking about 'Jacob's Ladder' syndrome, but what do you think of movies where it turns out the protagonist, the character you have empathized with the most, is flaming lunatic and a very unreliable narrator? An example that comes to mind is Secret Window and Angel Heart'. I'm sure there are more.

  • #2
    Porpheriaâ€TMs Lover by Robert Browning

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    • #3
      A Beautiful Mind, Rashomon, Citizen Kane and Usual Suspects all use the unreliable narrator. The difference is that in films like A beautiful Mind and Secret Window we are not told who the narrator is until the twist is revealed. What at first appears to be an audience superior narrative turns out to be an audience inferior narrative.

      I think the same conventions brought up in the twist ending thread apply.

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      • #4
        Does anyone know if there are any good books (even OOP) on the subject of plotting endings and the mechanics of twists? (like double twists and reverse twists etc.)

        It seems like there must only be a dozen or so scenarios, and they must have proper names other than 'the Sixth Sense ending' or whatever.

        I'm not looking to go back to Aristotle's day, something written since the advent of film would be great.

        Thanks

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        • #5
          Personally, my favorite screenwriting book du jour is HOW NOT TO WRITE a SCREENPLAY. It has a helpful chapter on endings.

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          • #6
            Finding out that the main character is the crazy one is so cliched and overused. One successful movie that just recently opened has this ending...I was *so* disappointed. Let's be creative, people!

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            • #7
              If there was a book on how to write good twists, i would avoid it entirely. I think such a book would cause more and more predictable endings. The psycho protagonist is such a case. Someone wants to end with a twist, so why not use the never-fail crazy guy method, or why not the good ol' it was all a dream ending? My best advise is do not make up a twist to throw off the audience. Create a twist that fits the story. It doesn't matter if its never been done before, or even if it has been done before (as long as you're not just copying a twist directly from another movie). My point in all this is that you can't really ever write a book on twists. If you could compile a distinct formula on how to make them, then they wouldn't be surprising anymore.

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              • #8
                Really what you refer to as a twist is just a payoff and character assassination...

                saying that, i totally agree with you. The insanity defence of problems the protag comsumes over the space of the script has almost no merit anymore.

                -redd

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                • #9
                  if the previous post was directed towards me, what i meant by twist is just any ol' sort of generic shocking ending. Twists at the end of a movie wouldn't be fun if they were all the same.

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                  • #10
                    twist

                    There seems to be some cattle call for everything to be black and white....do this, don't do that.

                    Twist endings have been a part of great storytelling since there were any, and certainly involved in a wealth of mystery, horror, thriller, and supernatural.

                    You have Sixth Sense and you have Identity. Now there is a "black and white".

                    A well written script with a twist ending is just that and nothing less.

                    For every twist ending there is a boring linear drama like In The Bedroom|I

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                    • #11
                      Re: twist

                      I thought Beautiful Mind was brilliantly done because it gave you a sense of what it is to be schizophrenic. And having worked as a counselor for schizophrenics, I thought it did them justice.

                      Beyond that flick, I can see the lack of appeal the insane protag has. Secret Window made me laugh. And honestly I wanted to know where all the writing on the walls went.

                      Identity amused me. Fight Club amused me a great deal. But I take them with the same grain of salt that I take much of the dreck that comes out of HW these days. I mean how many times do we need to destroy the world? But it's HW and a source of amusement.

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                      • #12
                        I, personally, am tired of movies using this tired gimmick(unreliable narrator/protagonist)...The last time it was used to BRILLIANT effect was THE USUAL SUSPECTS...but that movie owed just as much to Kevin Spacey's performance & Bryan Singer's direction...

                        There is one very recent film that uses the gimmick and you see it coming a Million Miles Away...I won't say the name of the film so as not spoil it for others(trust me, you aren't missing much), but I was disappointed in the actors in the movie for choosing it.

                        Does anyone agree that this "technique" has become a lazy marketing tool rather than an effective storytelling element?

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                        • #13
                          Whew...

                          Guys, this discussion is just what I needed. I'm working on a script set in an insane asylum now and my twist is that the character *isn't* insane (well, not so much a full-on Law & Order twist as an interesting bend in the road along the way).

                          Thanks!

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                          • #14
                            visionary, I'm with you all the way, and even beyond. I didn't even consider The Usual Suspects brilliant. To me it was just a puzzle/caper movie with a twist at the end. Okay, so that's who Kaiser Soze was, got the answer, thanks guys. Was I carried away by anyone's towering passion? Was I moved by anyone's struggle and consequent change? Did I encounter anyone I'd love to meet in real life? I'm some sort of sucker for character. The only time I'm willing to do without it is for broad comedy like Jackie Chan movies, and hell even those movies have more to do with character than The Usual Suspects did.

                            Anyway, I agree it's just an exercise in pulling out the rug from under the audience. See how well you can string them along until the big Gotcha. It's Cinema as Crossword Puzzle. Even if it's well executed, it's mere craft, not art. I'll quit rambling.

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                            • #15
                              the worst example of this whacko twist syndrome was in Fight Club - i loved the first 2/3rds of the story and the idea that theses guys buest stress release was to beat each others brains out - but, disolving Pitt's character....the resolution made me groan.

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