Fatal Flaw?

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  • JimHull
    replied
    Re: Fatal Flaw?

    LOL - if you read any of my posts, I never once stated that Rick is the Antagonist. Maj. Strasser is clearly the Antagonist.

    Re: Red as simply being the Narrator

    Red has a problem that many of the other inmates share, namely, that they easily go along with whatever the warden or any of the other guards tell them to do. They have become institutionalized. The thing that elevates Red beyond his fellow inmates, at least as far as dramatic structure goes, is that we get a close intimate look into what that it feels like to think this way. The parole hearings are scenes that are solely all about Red. We don't get scenes like that with any of the other characters (you could argue that there is the section with Brooks when he is let go, but I would say that is more of a substory, whereas Red's storyline is key throughout.

    Through his relationship with Andy, Red changes and transforms the way he looks at life. I believe his relationship with Andy is the heart of the story, in much the same way that Rick's relationship with Ilsa is the heart of "Casablanca." Andy does not have this kind of relationship with any other character in the story and is another reason why I would argue that it elevates Red beyond simply the guy telling the story. When he chooses to "get busy living" he is basically telling us that he has adopted Andy's way of seeing things. When he tells the parole board to basically shove it up their ass, he is finally standing up to the system like Andy did. Andy's was on a much larger scale, Red's was more of a personal one.

    Red's storyline gives the audience the opportunity to experience what it is like to be a person who has lost all hope, who has become an institutional man and who goes along with whatever is told him. And then it gives us the very emotional experience of what it would be like to stand up against those who oppress you and transform yourself into someone who believes that "hope springs eternal." While this experience is somewhat mirrored in Andy's storyline, it is presented in a more objectified manner and what's more, I would argue that Andy had that sense of hope from the very beginning. Sure, there were moments when he had his doubts, but when it came right down to it, he stuck to his guns and stuck it to the warden.

    Leave a comment:


  • zenplato
    replied
    Re: Fatal Flaw?

    I think this guy is pulling our chain. Surely no one really thinks like Jim does.

    Rick as the antag?

    Leave a comment:


  • sarajb
    replied
    Re: Fatal Flaw?

    Originally posted by JimHull View Post
    Re: loglines for Shawshank and Casablanca

    I have an idea where you are headed with this question, but before I bite...

    In my estimation, loglines are about as useful to an author as the concept of "raising the stakes." They're great for development executives and the back of DVD boxes, but they don't really give a writer the tools necessary to write a complete story. They are reductive and meaningless and should not be a part of the creative process as they don't delineate any structural features of a story.
    Reductive in a good way. Loglines are crucial to my creative process, crucial as headlights on a car.

    Protagonist, antagonist, goal and stakes - understanding a story at its base lets a writer see where other elements should build, branch and connect. Loglines aren't mandatory, but they're really not meaningless endeavors.

    Leave a comment:


  • ScreenplayQA
    replied
    Re: Fatal Flaw?

    hahaha

    if you ever need any computer/hacker ideas just let me know. I'm a programmer for a living - ya know until someone decides to pay me to write about stuff, instead of actually doing stuff.

    Originally posted by Steven Jenkins View Post
    Thanks for the hint

    I was more thinking along the lines of USB voltage, with the higher voltage of a standard USB burning out the circuits.

    But that would have needed unnecessary exposition.

    I thought about a give-away line that it's protected, which later turns out to be a lie.

    But in the end I've abandoned that ploy altogether, and made the antagonist (the cat ) want my hero to read the contents as part of her cunning stunt.

    Leave a comment:


  • Steven Jenkins
    replied
    Re: Fatal Flaw?

    Thanks for the hint

    I was more thinking along the lines of USB voltage, with the higher voltage of a standard USB burning out the circuits.

    But that would have needed unnecessary exposition.

    I thought about a give-away line that it's protected, which later turns out to be a lie.

    But in the end I've abandoned that ploy altogether, and made the antagonist (the cat ) want my hero to read the contents as part of her cunning stunt.

    Leave a comment:


  • ScreenplayQA
    replied
    Re: Fatal Flaw?

    Can you make it that the USB is encrypted and can only be decrypted by inserting it into a specif computer with the proper MAC address [ Media Access Control ]

    That solves your issue right there.

    Originally posted by Steven Jenkins View Post
    I just spotted a huge flaw in my story - but think it isn't critical. Just after some advice

    My plot is about getting a mem-stick with vitally important data on it to a particular person & place.

    My flaw is that this data could feasibly be uploaded to the person via the internet, or the mem-stick posted in the mail, which kinda undermines my hero's hazardous trek across the country.

    I'm covering this flaw by exposing that the mem-stick is hardware protected, so if it's inserted into a standard USB port the data gets fried - and if it's posted in the mail it could get intercepted by the authrities who are hunting for the mem-stick.

    This arse-covering seems a bit feeble I know, but I'm still feeling kinda safe here because my flaw is the self-same one I've just spotted in STAR-WARS, and nobody else ever seems to have done so.

    What do you think? Am I safe on this one, or not?

    Many thanks

    Steve Jenkins
    rebel base
    3rd planet on left past death-star
    galaxy far-far-way

    hmm!
    Maybe I just answered my own question.

    Leave a comment:


  • instant_karma
    replied
    Re: Fatal Flaw?

    Originally posted by NikeeGoddess View Post
    here's my take that i posted several pages back.

    redd talks about how he spent so many years inside that he didn't think he could survive in the real world. remember when the first old guy got released and hung himself? redd thought he was on that same path but andy's desire to get out of that prison even after 17 years inspired him to survive out there. that's why redd is the protagonist and andy is the main character.
    To me, that's just a character's arc being altered by interacting with the protagonist. Which should happen to a greater or lesser degree with almost every major character the protagonist encounters. Again, I think this has already been quite well established in various story telling theories, and I don't see the need to try and create a new storytelling device to address a problem that doesn't exist.

    Leave a comment:


  • NikeeGoddess
    replied
    Re: Fatal Flaw?

    Originally posted by instant_karma View Post
    I still don't see anything here that goes against the idea that Red is simply the Narrator, telling the story of Andy, the Protagonist.

    If you don't think Red's role fits this already pretty well established storytelling device, could you please explain why.

    It seems like you're trying to sell a new paradigm to replace one that currently works perfectly well.
    here's my take that i posted several pages back.

    redd talks about how he spent so many years inside that he didn't think he could survive in the real world. remember when the first old guy got released and hung himself? redd thought he was on that same path but andy's desire to get out of that prison even after 17 years inspired him to survive out there. that's why redd is the protagonist and andy is the main character.

    Leave a comment:


  • Steven Jenkins
    replied
    Re: Fatal Flaw?

    Originally posted by Steven Jenkins View Post
    I've had enough of Casablanca - who's the Protag in "A Christmas Carol"?

    Is it Bob Cratchit?

    Ok - laugh it up

    (Sorry - this wasn't a serious question!)

    Leave a comment:


  • instant_karma
    replied
    Re: Fatal Flaw?

    Originally posted by JimHull View Post
    Loglines illustrate and summarize the most interesting or compelling parts of a story. An author may choose to emphasize any portion of a story's structure, making one element more interesting than the next, with little to no effect on the structure itself. The intensity of one does not negate the necessity of the other. Whether or not Darabont spent more time on Andy's story does not change the fact that the film is seen through Red's eyes. It is his personal perspective on the events that unfold that we as an audience share, and it is an integral part of the story's message.
    I still don't see anything here that goes against the idea that Red is simply the Narrator, telling the story of Andy, the Protagonist.

    If you don't think Red's role fits this already pretty well established storytelling device, could you please explain why.

    It seems like you're trying to sell a new paradigm to replace one that currently works perfectly well.

    Leave a comment:


  • JimHull
    replied
    Re: Fatal Flaw?

    Re: loglines for Shawshank and Casablanca

    I have an idea where you are headed with this question, but before I bite...

    In my estimation, loglines are about as useful to an author as the concept of "raising the stakes." They're great for development executives and the back of DVD boxes, but they don't really give a writer the tools necessary to write a complete story. They are reductive and meaningless and should not be a part of the creative process as they don't delineate any structural features of a story. Likewise, they are not a useful tool when it comes to analysis. If they did somehow communicate the true meaning behind the author's original intent, then we would all be writing loglines instead of elaborate well thought out screenplays.

    That being said, I will concede that if I were to write loglines for those films, the first would center on Andy's story, the second on Rick's. Those are the most compelling parts of the story and would do well in the marketing or pitching of said story.

    Loglines illustrate and summarize the most interesting or compelling parts of a story. An author may choose to emphasize any portion of a story's structure, making one element more interesting than the next, with little to no effect on the structure itself. The intensity of one does not negate the necessity of the other. Whether or not Darabont spent more time on Andy's story does not change the fact that the film is seen through Red's eyes. It is his personal perspective on the events that unfold that we as an audience share, and it is an integral part of the story's message.

    Leave a comment:


  • Steven Jenkins
    replied
    Re: Fatal Flaw?

    I've had enough of Casablanca - who's the Protag in "A Christmas Carol"?

    Is it Bob Cratchit?

    Ok - laugh it up

    (Sorry - this isn't a serious question!)
    Last edited by Steven Jenkins; 04-01-2010, 09:19 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • instant_karma
    replied
    Re: Fatal Flaw?

    Originally posted by Rantanplan View Post
    Personally, my favorite scene in CASABLANCA is when the fat man swats the fly in the BLUE PARROT. I think he should have been developed into a Main Character
    The fly or the fat man?

    I can see both working.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rantanplan
    replied
    Re: Fatal Flaw?

    Personally, my favorite scene in CASABLANCA is when the fat man swats the fly in the BLUE PARROT. I think he should have been developed into a Main Character

    Leave a comment:


  • Steven Jenkins
    replied
    Re: Fatal Flaw?

    Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
    No, no. Clearly Rick is the antagonist of Casablanca.
    What's the catch

    Oh,who cares.

    Leave a comment:

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