Anachronisms

[Bill Marquardt]

Every once in awhile I hear an anachronism in a movie or a song and I wonder if the latest generation understands the significance. Here's one from "Harper Valley PTA", a hit country song in the 1960's:

"And doesn't Mrs. Johnson seem to use a lot of ice whenever he's away?" ('He' is Mr. Johnson.)

Tha line could easily have been a bit of dialogue in a movie.
Remember when Superman could change into his costume in a phone booth? How can we avoid such things when we write, to maintain timelessness for our work?

[Vigorish9]

i'm baffled bill. what did you say?

vig

[Salazkin]

"And doesn't Mrs. Johnson seem to use a lot of ice whenever he's away?" ('He' is Mr. Johnson.)

It would, for example, be an anachronism if this line were in a period piece before the advent of refrigeration. But in this case... I'm not sure.

Timelessness will be diffucult to pull off if your story in any way hinges on or otherwise references certain technological devices.

[ComicBent]

I'm still trying to figure that one out, Bill, and I'm older than you are.

The song was about the hypocrisy of the locals ... but ya got me there!

The anachronism that drives me up the wall is the use of the verb 'lose' in the sense of 'discard' or 'get rid of', as in 'Lose that crazy hat!' This is used almost regularly in films now, even though the word was not used in that way until fairly recent years (maybe about ten years ago).

[roscoegino]

The anachronism that gets me is the one in Raging Bull where Jake La Motta (DeNiro) is sparring in the gym and we a see a poster of a boxer with a 70's afro in the background.

[Bill Marquardt]

Before refrigerators, people used ice boxes. The ice man delivered blocks of ice to homes, much like the milkman delivering milk.

Mrs. Johnson using a lot of ice implies she was getting regular visits from the ice man while hubby was away, or in other words...

I'm too embarassed to say. It had the same connotation as saying someone's baby looks like the mailman. But anyway, I'll bet there are some others you've heard.

[Pen Dragon]

When Mel said "news travels fast in the Old West" in Maverick.

[prw]

Anachronisms

Bill -

Interesting look at a great old song. Another way to think about it is that she drinks a lot (uses a lot of ice) when he's away.

Either way, I like it.

[Salazkin]

Excellent call, Pen. Textbook.

[hot sticky white goo]

tongue in cheek

When Mel said "news travels fast in the Old West" in Maverick.

when mel said, "even in the future nothing works" in spaceballs.

different mel, of course.

edited to add: now that i think about it, it may have been moranis who said it.

[refriedwhiskey]

Re: tongue in cheek

Is "Harper Valley PTA" an old enough song to contain a reference to the ice man? I always thought it just meant that Mrs. Johnson drinks a lot (and probably has gentleman callers over for lots of drinks) when the Mr. is away.

[Bill Marquardt]

Re: tongue in cheek

The point that we can confuse the meaning to include drinking a lot is what I am talking about. We have no current reference. Using a lot of ice in her drinks would not be known to anyone outside of her home, however. The ice man would be very visible to nosy neighbors.

The "Honeymooners" TV show of the late Fifties showed an ice box in the Kramden's apartment. Since Harper Valley was presumably a country town, it would not be out of line to presume they were a little behind the times, especially since the singer was describing an event of the past.

Trust me on this one.

[Augie Kestrel]

Re: tongue in cheek

With obvious regret, I feel compelled to reveal that it's Mrs. Taylor who uses a lotta ice while her husband (Bobby Taylor) is away. Mrs. Johnson is the "hero" (heroine) of the story, the woman who "socked it to the Harper Valley PTA".

I never considered the mention of ice as anachronistic. I just thought it was more symbolic than anything. I took it to mean that she drinks a lot. There are at least two other references to heavy-drinkers in the song.

[Totiwos]

Timeless films

Be educated. It's hard to make a movie timeless unless you can predict the future, and it's hard to predict the future if you don't know what is going on now. In some cases, having something in a film that dates it is unavoidable. For example, every film that shows the New York City skyline is now marked as pre-2001 or post-2001. I think that focusing on universal themes can make something last longer, like Shakespeare. Pay attention to the news and watch for trends but don't get caught up in them while you're writing. Having characters discuss whether a private ship will ever go into space would be a good example of what to avoid if you don't want your film to be outdated, as would be a discussion of whether they will ever find a cure for West Nile Virus.

I'm not so sure that it's a bad thing that a film reflects its times unless the times change between the writing and the release.

[Augie Kestrel]

Re: Timeless films

But that's not what Bill was saying. He pointed out an instance in which the song appears (in his view) to refer to the practice of ice-delivery years after the practice had been abandoned in favor of refrigerators/freezers. The setting of the song was obviously in the 60s, since it referred to a mini-skirt. The "ice" reference therefore was clearly an avoidable anachronism (if you believe that it referred to the delivery of ice). It really didn't require extensive research on the part of the songwriter to know that, since he/she was writing about his own "modern times".