Anachronisms

[Bill Marquardt]

Re: Timeless films

Thanks for the correction, Augie. I was singing it in my head the wrong way.

[Winter in New York]

Re: Timeless films

To be honest with you, I'm actually a fan of dialog that doesn't necessarily give away its full meaning straight away.

Dialog that resonates depth is the fodder of characters with more than one dimension.

Winter in New York

[JakeSchuster aka Ostroff]

Re: Timeless films

Hell, when I was a kid we always called the fridge the "ice-box". But then again, I'm older than Bill and Deus.


But not by much.

[hunterjordan]

Re: Timeless films

Hell, when I was a kid we always called the fridge the "ice-box". But then again, I'm older than Bill and Deus.

Everyone didn't have electricity in the early '60s. There were still a number of rural areas that used ice during that decade. That said, I'm still not sure that the song was referring to 'ice' as such.

[JakeSchuster aka Ostroff]

Re: Timeless films

Yeah, my "rural" area was ten minutes from the Bronx. "Icebox" was a word commonly used by my parents, who grew up in New York City in the 20s and 30s. Old habits die hard.

And I think, as Bill does, that the lyrics of the song in question--which I remember well when it came out and was played pretty regularly on AM radio--refers to a woman hitting the bottle out of loneliness.

[Bill Marquardt]

Re: Timeless films

Well, here's one I have mentioned before, but should not cause disagreement. In Ralph Ellison's book, "Invisible Man," he speaks of the "gay nurses" providing sexual favors to patients. This makes sense in today's vernacular, but the wrong sense. Fifty or sixty years ago "gay" meant promiscuous or sexually active, so Ralph was talking about female nurses, not males. How many of us would know that?

At any rate, my original question is somewhat rhetorical. I would like to keep such anachronisms out of my writing, but I am not sure there is any foolproof way to do that.

I did once see a movie on tv that was set in the distant future. It showed a kid playing Pong an a wall-sized telivision screen. It was humorous to see this and I am sure the writer did not intend it that way. One of Asimov's books made a point of describing the small calculator on the arm of a space traveller, little knowing that our technology would be beyond that level long before space travel became routine.

(For the astute among us, that last sentence contains a prolepsis. So there, Optimus. )

[captain bligh]

Re: Timeless films

first, i'd like to think that anybody over the age of sixteen would know there were and still are multiple definitions of "gay": of, relating to, or having a sexual orientation to persons of the same sex; showing or characterized by cheerfulness and lighthearted excitement; merry; bright or lively, especially in color: a gay, sunny room; given to social pleasures; and finally dissolute or licentious. we've added a definition; we didn't erase all of the others.

second, i don't think there's any way to avoid using words whose main definition will change over time, or mentioning something that will seem antiquated to future audiences. language is crazy and ever-changing, as anyone who's taken linguistics 101 can tell you. i also don't think it's a good idea to try to avoid using such words, even if you could; nor do i think it's a good idea to try to avoid mentioning things that may seem out-dated later. who cares if your writing of 2004 reads like writing of 2004? it is.

mark twain's writing reads like american writing of the late nineteenth century and he does okay. part of what gives a writer his voice is the society in which he is raised, and to try to erase evidence of the world in which you live right now in order to make your work "timeless" just doesn't make sense to me.

chances are, you're writing about the world in which you live in one way or another, so why tie one of your hands behind your back when it comes time to make the world fleshed out and real for fear of mentioning something that will one day seem out-dated?

maybe i'm missing the point, i don't know.

[Salazkin]

Re: Timeless films

Agreed, captain. The real timelessness (as borne out time and again in our readings) is evidenced by how true to life we portray the humans that populate our stories. The settings may change, but our impulses and desires, our foibles and weaknesses, our hopes and ambitions, remain strikingly unchanged over the ages and across the globe. Pluck your 23rd-century starship trooper out of intergalactic battle and insert him onto the fields of Agincourt (think Henry V in 15th-century France) and he's the same man. The toys and props are different, but the lifeblood - the humanity - is the same.

And there's nothing wrong with emblazoning your story with the stamp of the time and place in which you live. Many would argue it's our duty. After all, who better to represent this unique moment in history than we who occupy it? Who better than Mark Twain to portray the color and flavor of 19th-century life on the Mississippi?