Dial it up

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  • #31
    Re: Dial it up

    Originally posted by carcar View Post
    So how are we disagreeing???? I don't like that line, but the rest of the script is brilliant.

    That line, on its own, I DON'T CARE FOR.

    Could a writer who was not that good get away with it? A writer who has a suck script and throws a line like that in to jazz it up? Probably not. I'm saying, if you're new at this, be careful of mistaking style for substance (Goldman has both style and substance, just so I'm clear) and taking cheap shortcuts. Jeez.
    IMO - the line Bio quoted is not just entertaining (and certainly not a cheap trick), it reveals a lot about the characater of BUTCH who delivered the kick.

    It tells me BUTCH is willing to do anything, and has a lot of practice at doing anything, to win. Including kicking someone in the balls. Which, though I'm a woman (take note bio), I tend to think NOT kicking a guy in the balls is, among many men, an unspoken rule for fistfights.

    But Butch breaks that rule. In a spectacular manner. I now know who he is.

    So, for me -- Goldman loaded a lot into that one line. And entertained us while doing it. We should all be half as good.
    Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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    • #32
      Re: Dial it up

      Originally posted by sc111 View Post
      IMO - the line Bio quoted is not just entertaining (and certainly not a cheap trick), it reveals a lot about the characater of BUTCH who delivered the kick.

      It tells me BUTCH is willing to do anything, and has a lot of practice at doing anything, to win. Including kicking someone in the balls. Which, though I'm a woman (take note bio), I tend to think NOT kicking a guy in the balls is, among many men, an unspoken rule for fistfights.

      But Butch breaks that rule. In a spectacular manner. I now know who he is.

      So, for me -- Goldman loaded a lot into that one line. And entertained us while doing it. We should all be half as good.
      Duly noted Madame. The delicious irony of Butch's rule- and ballbreaker is that it comes right after he asks his nemesis about the rules of the fight...

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      • #33
        Re: Dial it up

        Originally posted by bioprofessor View Post
        The delicious irony of Butch's rule- and ballbreaker is that it comes right after he asks his nemesis about the rules of the fight...
        See? And I didn't even remember that part. Been so long since I've read it.
        Last edited by sc111; 09-19-2010, 09:35 AM. Reason: Bad typist
        Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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        • #34
          Re: Dial it up

          I've always been a big fan of writing the way you feel most comfortable writing. Your voice is your voice, and only you know how to wield it, so if you write with lots of asides and you can edit yourself when necessary, go for it. If you like your writing straight and to the point, more power to you. There is room for us all here.
          Chicks Who Script podcast

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          • #35
            Re: Dial it up

            Originally posted by carcar View Post
            Listen, I love what you just wrote there. I got no problem with that. I've been thinking about this for a couple of hours (Raises fist at heavens and shakes--"Damn you, DDPro! I should be concentrating on frolicking naked in the beautiful backyard housesit pool and not thinking about this!"--)

            and I guess the original line hits on one of my personal pet peeves, which is lines that self-reference Hollywood.

            Which probably started with the line in the OP, and therefore has seldom been done as well since. (Raises fist at heavens and shakes=="Damn you, William Goldman!)

            (See, I think what you wrote puts us in the character's shoes. Not forces us to mentally flip through every kick in the balls we've ever seen in the movies. And when the OP was written, there hadn't been that many onscreen kicks in the balls.)

            And yes, I do get to read more bad scripts than good in my present occupation.

            Okay. I have been frolicking in the pool and drinking wine and so I will shut up now.
            No, I get it, it's a pet peeve. Just that for me, it doesn't bother me to see references to Hollywood or anything like that in a script. In fact, I rather welcome it. I don't see it any differently than, say, a story that's self-aware. Because when I'm reading a screenplay, I can get lost enough in it to see the movie and the story, but I still know I'm reading a screenplay and allow for that. So Goldman's line, and lines like it, entertain me greatly. So we just don't see this in the same light, though I do agree that writing like that doesn't make up for a bad story. But as a reader, reading a line like that does tip me off that the writer at least isn't afraid to write what he or she wants to write. And I think that's an important attribute, too.

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            • #36
              Re: Dial it up

              Originally posted by bioprofessor View Post
              Duly noted Madame. The delicious irony of Butch's rule- and ballbreaker is that it comes right after he asks his nemesis about the rules of the fight...
              Yes. I remembered that later too. The dialogue that precedes it is what makes the kick. It's the counterpoint. That's story.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWTNBRs7Ccs
              Last edited by carcar; 09-19-2010, 10:33 AM. Reason: Added link

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              • #37
                Re: Dial it up

                Originally posted by sc111 View Post
                IMO - the line Bio quoted is not just entertaining (and certainly not a cheap trick), it reveals a lot about the characater of BUTCH who delivered the kick.

                It tells me BUTCH is willing to do anything, and has a lot of practice at doing anything, to win. Including kicking someone in the balls. Which, though I'm a woman (take note bio), I tend to think NOT kicking a guy in the balls is, among many men, an unspoken rule for fistfights.

                But Butch breaks that rule. In a spectacular manner. I now know who he is.

                So, for me -- Goldman loaded a lot into that one line. And entertained us while doing it. We should all be half as good.
                Originally posted by bioprofessor View Post
                Duly noted Madame. The delicious irony of Butch's rule- and ballbreaker is that it comes right after he asks his nemesis about the rules of the fight...
                Originally posted by carcar View Post
                Yes. I remembered that later too. The dialogue that precedes it is what makes the kick. It's the counterpoint. That's story.

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWTNBRs7Ccs
                I think that on its own the line seems out of place. But as a punchline it works.

                What leads up to the kick is the setup. The kick is the punchline.

                I think Goldman's line, a fairly long line, works in this case. In addition to fitting in with the mood of the script, it slows the read, causes us to linger on the kick and feel the pain.

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                • #38
                  Re: Dial it up

                  Originally posted by carcar View Post
                  Like looking at a house and saying "Wow, a red door! That architect must be really good!"
                  .
                  To use this anology...


                  If you're in a slum, the architect designed house will stand out; if you're in a street full of architect designed homes, maybe that red door will be the detail that makes the sale.

                  You can't assume your screenplay will arrive in a slush pile with 30 crap scripts, you have to assume it will arrive with 30 great scripts; and you have to beat them.
                  ________
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                  Last edited by Southern_land; 05-13-2011, 08:18 AM.
                  I heard the starting gun


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