Can I wait until the climax to expose the antagonist?

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  • #31
    Re: Can I wait until the climax to expose the antagonist?

    Wait until the climax to expose the antagonist...?


    All I'm saying is it worked for every Scooby Doo episode I've ever seen.
    #writinginaStarbucks #re-thinkingmyexistence #notanotherweaklogline #thinkingwhatwouldWilldo

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    • #32
      Re: Can I wait until the climax to expose the antagonist?

      A great recent example is The Ides of March. There's Duffy early on but the real antag (the one you do battle with at the end) is Morris, which is realised much later on.
      Story Structure 1
      Story Structure 2
      Story Structure 3

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      • #33
        Re: Can I wait until the climax to expose the antagonist?

        Originally posted by Timmy View Post
        A great recent example is The Ides of March. There's Duffy early on but the real antag (the one you do battle with at the end) is Morris, which is realised much later on.
        Dude... Spoiler Alert.

        Guess I'm not watching that over the holidays...

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        • #34
          Re: Can I wait until the climax to expose the antagonist?

          Shortened for maximum applicability:

          Originally posted by socalwriter1 View Post
          Can I
          Yes.

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          • #35
            Re: Can I wait until the climax to expose the antagonist?

            I spent about a half hour last night arguing with someone on a Facebook group about "rules", but it devolved into farce when she said that the "consultants" she paid to read her script suggested that though the read was good and that the screenplay "worked" she should still try to reach a certain beat by page 30 instead of page 34.

            My question: If it worked, why did you change it?

            Oh, and a working screenwriter came on after this almost 90 post argument between me and her, basically said the same thing I said in the argument, and her response was: "Amen. Agree completely."

            I hate Facebook.

            HH

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            • #36
              Re: Can I wait until the climax to expose the antagonist?

              Can I ... reach a certain beat by page 30, instead of page 34, and make it work better?
              "I am the story itself; its source, its voice, its music."
              - Clive Barker, Galilee

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              • #37
                Re: Can I wait until the climax to expose the antagonist?

                Can one or can you? The answer is different.

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                • #38
                  Re: Can I wait until the climax to expose the antagonist?

                  OP -
                  You can wait until the climax to expose the antagonist, but it's more comfortable for him to be exposed before the climax.

                  HH -
                  Are you talking about the First Act turn? I got a note like that once. "It works fine the way it is, it's no big deal, but it would be better if such and such happened a page sooner."
                  "The Hollywood film business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." Hunter S Thompson

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                  • #39
                    Re: Can I wait until the climax to expose the antagonist?

                    Originally posted by cshel View Post
                    HH -
                    Are you talking about the First Act turn? I got a note like that once. "It works fine the way it is, it's no big deal, but it would be better if such and such happened a page sooner."
                    No idea if it was a First Act turn or what, and I think it's a valid argument to have something happen sooner; especially if it can be better than it already is. My argument comes from this rigidity about what page something has to happen, and whether one has too many parantheticals, or whatever flavor rule is being discussed.

                    Seriously. This reverse-engineering bullshit gets kinda ridiculous after awhile; this constant battle to try to find out which rule one should obey so that someone can buy the script.

                    I'm not saying (and I don't think anyone's suggesting) that the script should be the equivalent of a Jackson Pollock painting, but, goddamn, just write the damn thing.

                    DISCLAIMER: I don't know a damn thing, so my rant may not be the one you should listen to. Just drop a quarter in my cup, and move on.

                    HH

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                    • #40
                      Re: Can I wait until the climax to expose the antagonist?

                      Originally posted by haroldhecuba View Post
                      I spent about a half hour last night arguing with someone on a Facebook group about "rules", but it devolved into farce when she said that the "consultants" she paid to read her script suggested that though the read was good and that the screenplay "worked" she should still try to reach a certain beat by page 30 instead of page 34.

                      My question: If it worked, why did you change it?

                      Oh, and a working screenwriter came on after this almost 90 post argument between me and her, basically said the same thing I said in the argument, and her response was: "Amen. Agree completely."

                      I hate Facebook.

                      HH

                      Or, one could use the old copywriter's trick and just edit action lines to fit two lines instead of three. You can do that and get a page 34 beat to shift up to at least page 32 -- perhaps even 30 -- yet nothing in the story is changed.

                      Best of both worlds.
                      Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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                      • #41
                        Re: Can I wait until the climax to expose the antagonist?

                        HH-
                        That's what I meant about my note, that the person meant it would be better just because that was the "rule". I'm also not saying that you shouldn't pay attention to something that makes better sense story-wise. Or that there might actually be things that need cutting. It just seems so arbitrary to worry about one page off the mark, just because.

                        SC-
                        Further proof how silly the rule can be. With some tricky formatting, chopped off sentences, and less clarity, I can get this puppy down one page, with nothing changed story-wise, just because.
                        "The Hollywood film business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." Hunter S Thompson

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