Alternative to 3 act structure?

[ricther]

Do working screenwriters in hollywood(the john logans and diablo codys) use a strict 3 act structure? Is it a must? And what are some alternative methods?

[SkyPolynomial]

Re: Alternative to 3 act structure?

Do most Hollywood movies have a clear beggining(set up), middle(complications), and end(resolution)?

Yep.

For a more in depth analysis.

-Diablo Cody-

Juno: Yep

Jennifer's Body: yep

John Logan's long list of movies: Yep

So...yep.

Can you define what you mean by strict?

[ricther]

Re: Alternative to 3 act structure?

Do most Hollywood movies have a clear beggining(set up), middle(complications), and end(resolution)?

Yep.

For a more in depth analysis.

-Diablo Cody-

Juno: Yep

Jennifer's Body: yep

John Logan's long list of movies: Yep

So...yep.

Can you define what you mean by strict?

By strict i mean for example you have to hit your catalyst on or about page 10, big event at page 30, midpoint at page 60, etc.

[SkyPolynomial]

Re: Alternative to 3 act structure?

If you read a bunch of scripts you'll see that the only reason these types of numbers are thrown around is because things appear to happen around them. And in some scripts it may very well be the case that the mentioned elements fall exactly on those numbers...

But no, it is not that strict to the page number. Readers aren't opening scripts and going, "Failure to reach incite by page 10, pass"

What matters is set up, complications, and resolution. If you're still setting up by page 50 then yeah, something might be wrong. That's what the guidelines of strict structure try to help you with.

Read lots of Hollywood scripts, you'll see.

[Bulldog]

Re: Alternative to 3 act structure?

Yeah, Syd Field fed alot of minds with the "three act, 10 pages and a whammo, pp1 by page 25, midpoint pg 50, pp2 ..." stuff. Guidelines, nothing more. And even he says it's not a hard and fast thing. And clearly it's not. Following those rules to the letter actually turn some readers off.

[christopher jon]

Re: Alternative to 3 act structure?

Readers aren't opening scripts and going, "Failure to reach incite by page 10, pass"

This only happens when the script sucks.

Write something great and nobody is keeping track of page numbers.

Try this structure,

1. Set up the story as quickly as possible.
   
2. Have a lot of cool things happen.
   
3. End BIG.

[Kwinnky]

Re: Alternative to 3 act structure?

In the behind the scenes feature of Garden State, Zach Braff said his script wasn't made in the three act structure. And while it wouldn't really fit with Save The Cat, the finished project is easy to fit into three acts. So I don't think of 3 acts as rules, but an eventuality of a well told tale.

[BattleDolphinZero]

Re: Alternative to 3 act structure?

Do working screenwriters in hollywood (the john logans and diablo codys) use a strict 3 act structure? Is it a must? And what are some alternative methods?

Dude, 3 act structure to many pros means, "beginning, middle, and end."

Plenty of writers use 4 or 5 acts. I do it sometimes. I don't bother explaining it to execs or producers because they always want 3, but what I'm saying is just write your movie and don't worry about it. If it's good, it will inherently have story points that make gatekeepers feel like it's perfect, traditional 3 act structure...even if it's not.

[Joaneasley]

Re: Alternative to 3 act structure?

Some people like to use the sequence structure. It will give you 3 acts if you consider Act I the set-up, Act II the complications, and Act III the resolution,
but it's not so much about what has to happen on what page number. It's more about dividing the script into 8 or so different tasks leading up to the main story goal, each task sequence with its own beginning, complications and resolution. This structure helps keep a script unified, focused and moving forward, since the protagonist is always struggling to accomplish the next mini-goal in the chain. You can find out more about the sequence structure in the archives.

[wcmartell]

Re: Alternative to 3 act structure?

What Kwinky said: Because the 3 act structure is something that goes back about 2,400 years and is kind of the basis of a good dramatic story, even if you never think about it - you still usually end up with it.

Unless you never think about it and don't end up with it and your script sucks big time.

Better to know how it works than just stumble around in the dark... and once you understand it - you can just set it and forget it.

- Bill

[roscoegino]

Re: Alternative to 3 act structure?

Read enough scripts (and a few very good how tos), watch enough films and the stuff will be ingrained. As your reading, clicks will go off in your head. Why isn't this happening yet? Why is my story not going upstream? It's page so and so, do you know where your protag is?

Methods are methods. At the end of the day if a script sucks, it sucks.

[Kermet Key]

Re: Alternative to 3 act structure?

Dude, 3 act structure to many pros means, "beginning, middle, and end."

Plenty of writers use 4 or 5 acts. I do it sometimes. I don't bother explaining it to execs or producers because they always want 3, but what I'm saying is just write your movie and don't worry about it. If it's good, it will inherently have story points that make gatekeepers feel like it's perfect, traditional 3 act structure...even if it's not.

I think I get the 4 act structure of a feature - Act 1 (Set Up), Act 2 (Complication) Act 3 (Downward Spiral) and Act 4 (Ending) - could explain or elaborate on either?

[JeffLowell]

Re: Alternative to 3 act structure?

The 4 act structure is just calling the midpoint of the 3 act structure an act break.

[AndreV]

Re: Alternative to 3 act structure?

When I was learning about how to structure my first screenplays, the three-act structure seemed so open to me. The Angry Hulk post about the myth of the three-act structure was very helpful in articulating my beliefs on the matter, breaking it down a little more.

Additionally, breaking scripts down into further 10-page acts of awesome, for a total of nine to 11 mini-acts is a good way to ensure everything you're doing has a point.

[ComicBent]

Re: Alternative to 3 act structure?

It is always about beginning, middle, and end. Well, it does not have to be, but then you will not have a story, just some events.

Chekhov thought in terms of four acts, but as Jeff said, all you are doing is making the midpoint the beginning of an act.

Shakespeare's plays were divided into five acts after his death to conform with a paradigm in use at the time, but the five acts are still fairly easily rearranged into three acts. Act I is usually a short setup; II is the the rest of the first act; III and IV are the middle act; and Act V is a the third act. I am sure you could make an argument for a slightly different scheme with some of the plays.