Plot Point 2

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: Plot Point 2

    Originally posted by ricther View Post
    how do you go forth with the outline process? Do you just write what events you want to occur in the movie and start typing the script from there?
    I ask this in earnest:

    as opposed to what?

    That's an outline, right?

    Comment


    • Re: Plot Point 2

      Originally posted by BattleDolphinZero View Post
      I ask this in earnest:

      as opposed to what?

      That's an outline, right?
      Sorry about that, i feel so dumb sometimes. I wasnt being clear, im really stressing out over this. What i meant was do you use the three act model and/or plot points when you outline?

      Comment


      • Re: Plot Point 2

        Heh, I remember being in this director's editing bay about a year ago and the guy's won awards and has a relatively unconventional style but was surprised to see all of Blake Snyder's beats up along a wall. He had everything from Theme Stated to Fun and Games to All is Lost etc.

        Comment


        • Re: Plot Point 2

          Originally posted by ricther View Post
          Ok. I have a question for you then. I dont want to be a castaway. Once you have an initial story idea(you have a working logline and a goal that your protag wants to accomplish)how do you go forth with the outline process? Do you just write what events you want to occur in the movie and start typing the script from there?
          Aha! A good question!

          I begin with questions.

          What is my central dramatic argument? What's the point of the movie?

          How can I show my character in conflict with that in the beginning? How can I make it interesting? Real? Honest? Funny? Broad? Scary? (whatever the tone of the piece demands)

          What would be a dramatically satisfying ending for that character? Who else in his or her life is meaningful?

          Now... what's the most difficult journey from A to B? How can I season that journey with pitfalls and turns? How can I lead them astray, challenge them, tempt them, taunt them, scare them? How can the world they're in change and inform them? How will the other characters instruct them, confront them, fail them, betray them?

          I don't worry about page counts, counting "plot points" or any of that nonsense. There are no plot points to me. There are sequences imbued with meaning to the character.

          There are movements that connect theme to character to narrative to relationships.

          I don't care what page any of this **** happens on. That just falls into place once you start thinking about your structure in terms of what your character's true development is over the course of your narrative. I don't care how many things happen. I don't care about nonsense "pinch points" or "middle of the movie revelation" or any of that crap.

          I just work on torturing my character toward perfection.

          That's my job. I'm God. I'm doing this to my character because the idiot needs me to. It's going to hurt. I want him to curse me, then consider that I might be on to something, then trust me, and finally become me.

          After Identity Theft comes out, I'll show you guys the scan I made of the piece of paper where I sketched out the second act. You'll see how I do it. That's not to say you should do it that way, but you get a vibe for how it's far more impressionistic... feeling based... than rule-based.

          Comment


          • Re: Plot Point 2

            Unless the movie sucks, but whatever. The script ain't bad.

            Comment


            • Re: Plot Point 2

              Originally posted by Craig Mazin View Post
              Aha! A good question!

              I begin with questions.

              What is my central dramatic argument? What's the point of the movie?

              How can I show my character in conflict with that in the beginning? How can I make it interesting? Real? Honest? Funny? Broad? Scary? (whatever the tone of the piece demands)

              What would be a dramatically satisfying ending for that character? Who else in his or her life is meaningful?

              Now... what's the most difficult journey from A to B? How can I season that journey with pitfalls and turns? How can I lead them astray, challenge them, tempt them, taunt them, scare them? How can the world they're in change and inform them? How will the other characters instruct them, confront them, fail them, betray them?

              I don't worry about page counts, counting "plot points" or any of that nonsense. There are no plot points to me. There are sequences imbued with meaning to the character.

              There are movements that connect theme to character to narrative to relationships.

              I don't care what page any of this **** happens on. That just falls into place once you start thinking about your structure in terms of what your character's true development is over the course of your narrative. I don't care how many things happen. I don't care about nonsense "pinch points" or "middle of the movie revelation" or any of that crap.

              I just work on torturing my character toward perfection.

              That's my job. I'm God. I'm doing this to my character because the idiot needs me to. It's going to hurt. I want him to curse me, then consider that I might be on to something, then trust me, and finally become me.

              After Identity Theft comes out, I'll show you guys the scan I made of the piece of paper where I sketched out the second act. You'll see how I do it. That's not to say you should do it that way, but you get a vibe for how it's far more impressionistic... feeling based... than rule-based.
              Wow. Just... wow. I was going to recommend we start tying this up because I thought we were going in circles. Really, REALLY glad I didn't.
              sigpic

              Website
              Tweets
              Book

              Comment


              • Re: Plot Point 2

                Yup, very good advice.

                Comment


                • Re: Plot Point 2

                  Originally posted by Craig Mazin View Post

                  After Identity Theft comes out, I'll show you guys the scan I made of the piece of paper where I sketched out the second act.
                  In the words of Bart Scott: Can't wait!

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7KSkZxt_zo

                  Comment


                  • Re: Plot Point 2

                    Thanks Craig Mazin. Good advice. I guess the real question becomes why do all of these screenwriting books stress the importance of plot points, when it seems that people in the industry dont? But i guess thats suited for another thread.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Plot Point 2

                      But one last question. Forget about page numbers. Shouldnt you have plot points or guide posts or major events whatever you want to call it mapped out in your story? Just certain events like the catalyst or big event to help move the story forward until it reaches its climax so it wont sag?

                      Comment


                      • Re: Plot Point 2

                        I guess the real question becomes why do all of these screenwriting books stress the importance of plot points, when it seems that people in the industry dont?
                        For the same reason a few years ago they focussed on formatting. Because pat, plausible-yet-pointless answers are easy.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Plot Point 2

                          Originally posted by Craig Mazin View Post
                          Aha! A good question!
                          I don't worry about page counts, counting "plot points" or any of that nonsense. There are no plot points to me. There are sequences imbued with meaning to the character.

                          I don't care what page any of this **** happens on. That just falls into place once you start thinking about your structure in terms of what your character's true development is over the course of your narrative. I don't care how many things happen. I don't care about nonsense "pinch points" or "middle of the movie revelation" or any of that crap.
                          This is all fine. Inspiring even. But SOMEBODY is worrying about plot points (I said plot points, not page numbers) because movies usually do unfold in a similar manner.

                          For instance, Hangover 2 unfolds in a hugely similar manner as The Hangover. You weren't the only writer on that so maybe that wasn't your call. I didn't read 2's script -- possibly the editor tweaked things to happen in a similar fashion, perhaps the director wanted the same template -- but SOMEBODY was in fact, very mindful of all those original plot point beats and wanted to duplicate them or it wouldn't have happened.

                          So while it's a rather elegant (and trust me, it is) to say you never consider plot points but "sequences imbued with meaning," you do realize everybody else would just call that a plot point, don't you?

                          Just because one person is calling it a "sequence imbued with meaning" doesn't mean its not a plot point. It's the same thing, you're just calling it something different. Mostly, when people are talking about plot points they pretty much are thinking about them in exactly the thoughts you've layed out here -- which is good.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Plot Point 2

                            Well im reading a book right now called Writing Movies by the Gotham Writers' Workshop. In the book it tells that every movie has five major events(they dont stress page numbers). Here is an example they gave for Die Hard: Inciting Incident: terrorists storm the building. Plot point 1: terrorists kill the head of the corporation. Midpoint: McClane captures attention of the cops. Plot point 2: terrorists open the vault. Climax: McClane faces off with the terrorist leader. In theory this all sounds good. In fact unlike most things i read this book says that these turning points can either be highs or lows, just depends on your movie.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Plot Point 2

                              SOMEBODY was in fact, very mindful of all those original plot point beats and wanted to duplicate them or it wouldn't have happened
                              Post hoc ergo propter hoc, sort of.

                              The fact that you can discern those points doesn't mean that it's how they were created in the first place. Or that they weren't.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Plot Point 2

                                Originally posted by ricther View Post
                                Thanks Craig Mazin. Good advice. I guess the real question becomes why do all of these screenwriting books stress the importance of plot points, when it seems that people in the industry dont? But i guess thats suited for another thread.
                                Please go back and read again all the posts from the pros.

                                I don't think any of them wanted you or any other new writer walking away from all this thinking "plot points aren't important"


                                Jeff Shurtleff
                                "Some men see things the way they are and say why? I see things that never were and say, why not?"

                                http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...4669871&v=info

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X