Complexity vs simplicity

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Re: Complexity vs simplicity

    Memento isn't a complex story at all. It's a guy trying to figure out who he is (or who he can trust). You could argue that the plot has complexity; the way the story is told. But if you're talking about story, the distinction between complex and complicated is fairly meaningless. The effort to label everything almost never helps the writer or the writing process.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Complexity vs simplicity

      Originally posted by Crash BamBoom View Post
      You could argue that the plot has complexity; the way the story is told. But if you're talking about story, the distinction between complex and complicated is fairly meaningless. The effort to label everything almost never helps the writer or the writing process.
      Like labelling 'plot' and 'story'?

      I'm not quite sure how we got to 'labelling everything' from a general discussion of what complexity means. If you following that line of reasoning, you could level that accusation at virtually any thread in this forum...

      Ultimately, what works, in terms of advancing an individual's understanding of the craft, will not always work for another - and that's okay. In fact, it's often by hearing an opposing view that your own ones can truly come into focus. (This isn't to dismiss some obvious truths about writing, just that there's grey areas, and room for individuality too.)

      For example, when it comes to Memento, I think that trying to distinguish 'plot' from 'story' - at least in terms of the complexity issue, entirely misses the point, and the strength of the film. (Note - I'm not saying there's not a difference, just that an appreciation of the film's complexity isn't enriched by focusing on that.)

      Again, you may have an entirely different and equally justifiable perspective.

      In this way, I think we can safely explore different opinions without running the risk of wanting to 'label everything'.

      And for me the distinction between complex and complicated - aligned to how I originally defined it - remains invaluable - again, for me.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Complexity vs simplicity

        Originally posted by Dan View Post
        If you following that line of reasoning, you could level that accusation at virtually any thread in this forum...
        I would agree with you.

        And yes, maybe even like labeling plot and story. Though the distinction between plot and story is a basic and meaningful one. Those terms have commonly accepted distinct and separate definitions with regard to writing, regardless of how an individual feels about them.

        The original poster was looking for answers specifically about complexity in story. Stories that work are simple and clear - this dovetails with Craig's idea of clarity in theme, which is usually where you can find the story. I know working writers that differ on whether clearly articulating theme in the form of an either/or is important to their process or not. I haven't come across any who disagree on the importance of being able to articulate a clear and simple story. My bias is in favor of tools that help one to write and a lot of the academic semantic discussions seem less than useful for that.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Complexity vs simplicity

          Originally posted by Crash BamBoom View Post
          I would agree with you.

          My bias is in favor of tools that help one to write and a lot of the academic semantic discussions seem less than useful for that.
          In that case, we're definitely in agreement .

          I'm fairly new here, but from what I've seen, it's true that there's a fine line between the productive evaluation of aspects of screenwriting here, which can yield some valuable principles, and that which veers off into over-analysis (which, in any discipline, can lead to the dreaded 'analysis-paralysis').

          I maybe wasn't clear enough before, but I absolutely value simplicity in story-telling, but only in a broader context of the inherent complexity of the story you want to tell.

          So, do I enjoy 'E.T' or 'Die Hard'? Absolutely, they are classics, and great examples of simple stories, told simply, with excellent 'craft'.

          However, 'plot' and 'story' distinctions aside, 'Memento' (and 'Donnie Darko', and 'Usual Suspects', and even, perhaps, something like 'Duplicity') are complex films, to the extent that they are complex 'experiences' to watch.

          More than that though, the reason they crop up in discussions on complexity, is because they are (for most people) good examples of complex 'stories' told simply - what I mean by that is that the high level of craft involved means that, for me, in lesser hands those stories would have ended up both complex and (overly-)complicated.

          I just feel that overly focusing on simplicity for newcomers, without qualifying what that means in a broader context, could lead to people avoiding complex stories they want to tell. Personally, I hope there will always be a place for great simple stories and great complex stories.

          Funnily enough, I've realized my point was made more succinctly by Einstein decades ago:

          'Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.'

          For me, for stories, choose the story you want to tell, however inherently complex (or simple) that may be, and, beyond that, finesse your craft so that so you can tell it as elegantly and as simply as possible.

          Dan
          Last edited by Dan; 02-14-2012, 11:14 AM. Reason: Typos

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Complexity vs simplicity

            This thread is a simple story told in a complex way.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Complexity vs simplicity

              Originally posted by ChadStrohl View Post
              This thread is a simple story told in a complex way.
              Now you're just making things complicated .

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Complexity vs simplicity

                Originally posted by Crash BamBoom View Post
                My bias is in favor of tools that help one to write and a lot of the academic semantic discussions seem less than useful for that.

                Can you elaborate on some of the tools that help one to write?

                Thanks!!

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Complexity vs simplicity

                  Well, start with a simple story that's clear and articulable.



                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Complexity vs simplicity

                    I think a lot of complex questions arise out of very simple scenarios.

                    Does Hamlet murder his stepfather?

                    Straightforward enough, you'd think!
                    Forthcoming: The Annual, "I JUST GOT DUMPED" Valentine's Short Screenplay Writing Competition. Keep an eye on Writing Exercises.

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X