Warning... Do Not Read

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  • UnequalProductions
    replied
    Re: Warning... Do Not Read

    One thing missing here is that screenwriting is unlike any other type ofwriting. Anyone with an understanding of grammar can write a short story or novel. Some people do without even knowing that. But you have to know more to write a script.

    First of all, you have to learn format. Slug lines. Action. Dialogue. Youcan't do that by watching movies. Even reading screenplays won't necessarilyteach you everything you need to know. Hollywood readers will be able to tellright off the bat if you are unfamiliar with the format, and even if you havethe greatest story in the world, varying from it too far will get you stuckwith a pass.

    Second, screenplays are mostly about structure. Whether or not you agreewith three act structure, that's how audience are trained to recognize movies.If you wait until page 60 to find out what the major conflict of your story is, you've probably lost most of your viewers/readers.

    Third, character. The protagonist in a film doesn't have all the options ofa protagonist in other forms of writing. Catcher in the Rye is an amazing book,but how many movies can center around a character with no motivation or drive?I'm sure people will jump on me and give dozens of responses to this, butcompare that to the thousands of movies out there. ChadStrohl's example fromhis daughter's grade school is right. You have to have motivation and obstacles.

    I used to teach improv comedy. It also has tons of rules (no questions, don't go for the joke, etc.), but if you go watch the greatest improvisers, they break those rules all the time. The rules are like training wheels. You can only break them once you've leared why they exist.

    I think anyone who is serious about screenwriting needs some level of training, whether a class or a book or research on the internet, but only to get you started on the right path. There are tons of books out there about screenwriting because they sell. People want the hints and cheats to success, even though there aren't any. Once you have the basics of screenwriting down, the more you read is just time you're taking away from writing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ire
    replied
    Re: Warning... Do Not Read

    Originally posted by Biohazard View Post
    In my experience, the people who said "f_ck all the so-called 'rules', I'm writing MY WAY!" really suck balls. But when they begin to understand what the purpose of the so-called 'rules' are and how stories told and why they work in one way and not another, it's only then that they write something that doesn't completely suck balls.

    Weird.
    Good. I was waiting for this reply.

    Not saying eff the rules. Aristotle's Poetics is a book I suggest keeping at one's side. I'm saying eff the ocd dependence on the theories and the templates.

    Some people need to follow the rules to properly focus their stories and or conform their ideas to the rules otherwise they'll write meandering unfocused non-compelling stories.

    My sense or intuition of the newer DDP members is they're in the "ocd on the rules" category.





    The rules, the books are there.
    Last edited by Ire; 03-09-2012, 06:32 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ChadStrohl
    replied
    Re: Warning... Do Not Read

    From my daughter's gradeschool years when they were learning how to tell stories...

    "_____ wants _____ but can't have it because _____, so he/she______"

    That pretty much sums it up, I think.

    Leave a comment:


  • Biohazard
    replied
    Re: Warning... Do Not Read

    Originally posted by Ire View Post
    The books say this. Save The Cat says this. Linda Seger says this. John Truby says this. Chinatown is a classic so that book is right. Read the book because you spent money on it and then PUT IT ON THE SHELF.

    GET THE BOOKS OUT OF YOUR HEAD. Except for Aristotle's Poetics. He's Greek and he wrote that so long ago he has to be right. Otherwise,.. STOP IT STOP IT. STOP IT.

    You've watched a thousand movies. You've read a hundred novels. You've read just as many screenplays.

    You have a logline.
    Write your outline.
    Write your script.

    Develop your natural instinct for storytelling if you want to be a storyteller and vice versa.
    In my experience, the people who said "f_ck all the so-called 'rules', I'm writing MY WAY!" really suck balls. But when they begin to understand what the purpose of the so-called 'rules' are and how stories told and why they work in one way and not another, it's only then that they write something that doesn't completely suck balls.

    Weird.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ire
    replied
    Re: Warning... Do Not Read

    Originally posted by Pardack View Post
    A well deserved smile and thumbs up for Little Known Codicil. A great thread and delivered in style.

    Thanks, Ire. I needed a smile today.
    Glad someone caught that. And you're welcome.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ire
    replied
    Re: Warning... Do Not Read

    Originally posted by Mr Scribble View Post
    As the OP of the recent pacing thread that went off track, I'm not sure if this is directed at me, but just for the record...

    I've been trying my hand at screenwriting for almost three years now. I haven't read any screenwriting books, or taken any classes, but from web resources I'm familiar with the various approaches, philosophies and (supposed) rules out there. I supplement this with watching a bucketload of movies, and reading as many scripts as I can. I've been absorbing good, bad and ugly advice on forums, blogs, from interviews etc.

    What happened was that I internalized so many screenwriting "tips" that it paralyzed my writing for a long time. Ie. I'd write an outline/scene/act and hit on all things that I thought were important, but then realize that [insert any "rule", piece of advice, pro suggestion, Snyder/Field-ism etc] was missing, scrap it and try again. Rinse, repeat ad nauseum.

    One day (admittedly not too long ago), I got fed up and said FCUK IT, I'm doing it my way. Since then my writing has improved dramatically. I can see it on the page. In the process I also discovered the method of story development that works for me. I'm still aware of the "do's and don'ts" of screenwriting 101, but I'm not hung up on them anymore.

    And another thing (while I'm sitting in an airport, ranting away)... don't assume we're all in the same screenwriting boat. Internet aside, I live in a screenwriting vacuum (ie. currently, a tiny island nation in the north Pacific; previously a slightly larger island-nation in the south Pacific) so there's noone to bounce ideas off or just ask questions. Places like DDP offer a connection to the screenwriting world that I can't get otherwise - whether it's the pro's commenting on three pages, or a question about pacing, it's all part of the process of becoming a better writer.

    For me, screenwriting is a journey and I'm happy just to be moving forward.

    [Sorry for the biblical length post]
    No problem. I'm glad to hear you're plugging along and doing the writing. Glad to have you aboard. Keep asking questions. We'll answer them.

    Your thread was a spring board for this thread. There have been a number of threads here in this forum that started from even more basic questions or concerns related to rules and techniques than the one you stated. So forgive me that your thread is the one that started this. Actually it was the Chinatown thread that kicked this into high gear.

    I've long held and long suppressed my belief that as far as screenwriting, there's been a suppression, if you will, of storytelling telling instincts in favor of the various, numerous theories, formulae, techniques that are out there. Also, the trades, what is selling, what is "hot" as far as genres etc all imo help complicate things. I think that the writing process becomes a little unnatural. So that was the reason I posted that thread.

    So you're serious about the Micronesia... I could easily picture myself using Micronesia as a humorous phony location. If you take note a number of DDPers use the location section to express their humor. I could also, I think, picture myself in Micronesia and writing.

    Leave a comment:


  • DavidK
    replied
    Re: Warning... Do Not Read

    Originally posted by Mr Scribble View Post
    I internalized so many screenwriting "tips" that it paralyzed my writing for a long time.
    ...
    I got fed up and said FCUK IT, I'm doing it my way. Since then my writing has improved dramatically... In the process I also discovered the method of story development that works for me.
    That's a really useful observation.

    I think a lot of writers get so distracted by trying to work out what they should be writing at some particular point in the script that they almost remove themselves from the story they're trying to tell. Their mind is in the wrong place and they become -as you put it - paralyzed.

    Really I think you learn about scriptwriting by watching movies, reading scripts and writing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pardack
    replied
    Re: Warning... Do Not Read

    Originally posted by Ire View Post
    I'll exercise a little known codicil in the DDP constitution that gives the OP. unlimited power in times of anarchic threads.

    A well deserved smile and thumbs up for Little Known Codicil. A great thread and delivered in style.

    Thanks, Ire. I needed a smile today.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr Scribble
    replied
    Re: Warning... Do Not Read

    As the OP of the recent pacing thread that went off track, I'm not sure if this is directed at me, but just for the record...

    I've been trying my hand at screenwriting for almost three years now. I haven't read any screenwriting books, or taken any classes, but from web resources I'm familiar with the various approaches, philosophies and (supposed) rules out there. I supplement this with watching a bucketload of movies, and reading as many scripts as I can. I've been absorbing good, bad and ugly advice on forums, blogs, from interviews etc.

    What happened was that I internalized so many screenwriting "tips" that it paralyzed my writing for a long time. Ie. I'd write an outline/scene/act and hit on all things that I thought were important, but then realize that [insert any "rule", piece of advice, pro suggestion, Snyder/Field-ism etc] was missing, scrap it and try again. Rinse, repeat ad nauseum.

    One day (admittedly not too long ago), I got fed up and said FCUK IT, I'm doing it my way. Since then my writing has improved dramatically. I can see it on the page. In the process I also discovered the method of story development that works for me. I'm still aware of the "do's and don'ts" of screenwriting 101, but I'm not hung up on them anymore.

    And another thing (while I'm sitting in an airport, ranting away)... don't assume we're all in the same screenwriting boat. Internet aside, I live in a screenwriting vacuum (ie. currently, a tiny island nation in the north Pacific; previously a slightly larger island-nation in the south Pacific) so there's noone to bounce ideas off or just ask questions. Places like DDP offer a connection to the screenwriting world that I can't get otherwise - whether it's the pro's commenting on three pages, or a question about pacing, it's all part of the process of becoming a better writer.

    For me, screenwriting is a journey and I'm happy just to be moving forward.

    [Sorry for the biblical length post]

    Leave a comment:


  • SundownInRetreat
    replied
    Re: Warning... Do Not Read

    But wait OP,

    In a recent thread, along the same lines as looking to (paid for) external sources, someone was adamant that it's a good thing - that they may help identify if someone has a killer script, or point them in the right direction if it isn't that good".

    This person was so adamant, they just *have* to be right and everyone else must be wrong.

    Leave a comment:


  • BChristgau
    replied
    Re: Warning... Do Not Read

    This stuff really can't be said often enough.

    I have a friend who has spent literally thousands of dollars on classes and seminars and workshops and books and CDs and DVDs. He still hasn't finished a single complete script. In the meantime, I've finished three specs in the time he started doing this... and I'm *slow*.

    I'm determined to help my friend finish his first spec this year if I have to friggin' flog it out of him with a scourge, and the first thing I'm going to do is get him to STOP with the instructional scheisse. You have to sit down and do the work. Jimi Hendrix didn't become Jimi Hendrix by going to seminars and reading books - he became Jimi Hendrix by locking himself in a room and playing until his fingers bled.

    You learn by doing. There is no substitute.

    Cheers,

    B

    Leave a comment:


  • Ire
    replied
    Re: Warning... Do Not Read

    Page 7. . Exactly three-quarters down the page, no more, no less.
    Last edited by Ire; 03-08-2012, 10:25 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • christopher jon
    replied
    Re: Warning... Do Not Read

    On what page do I save the cat?

    Leave a comment:


  • wcmartell
    replied
    Re: Warning... Do Not Read

    You can use that stuff as an excuse *not* to write... but then, what was the purpose? The whole deal is to write stuff, learn stuff, write better stuff, learn stuff, write even better stuff...

    How do you get to Carnegie Hall?

    Oh, and don't fear failure - you have to fail a lot to succeed.

    - Bill

    Leave a comment:


  • Ire
    replied
    Re: Warning... Do Not Read

    Originally posted by ATB View Post
    I agree. Here's the thread:

    Plot Point 2 Thread


    Told you it was long...
    Holy crap.

    Well we'll have none of that here. I'll exercise a little known codicil in the DDP constitution that gives the OP. unlimited power in times of anarchic threads

    Leave a comment:

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