Angle On

[ATB]

Re: Angle On

NOBODY!

EVER! Rawr, rawr! I know everythang!!!

[TwoBrad Bradley]

Re: Angle On

EVER! Rawr, rawr! I know everythang!!!

Only when you stop growing.

[ATB]

Re: Angle On

So you've stopped growing...

[TwoBrad Bradley]

Re: Angle On

So you've stopped growing...

My statement was:

"Use the method you really understand and believe to be right for you - and don't let anyone tell you different."

I didn't say you can't grow, evolve, learn, challenge yourself, and understand new things.

If you really really really believe one thing, don't let anyone tell you different.

Now, if that person should convince you of something else, then that becomes the thing you understand and believe.

[StoryWriter]

Re: Angle On

I think that, most likely, it comes from people not understanding the advice of gurus - and not thinking for themselves.

... which can happen when reading just one paragraph without comprehending the entire book.

I've written fiction all my life (about fifty years). Around fourteen years ago I thought it might be fun to write screenplays. I wrote one and made all the newbie mistakes, but my screenplay did have some life and some drama in it.

Then I started reading the guru books. I don't buy books unless I intend to read them from cover to cover. So I read a lot of them -- they're in a box outside, in my shed, right now.

Then I started writing screenplays again and it was frustrating as hell trying to follow THE RULES that forbid many of the tools I had used all my writing life.

About this time (1998 or so) I found a screenwriter's newsgroup that had a lot of pros on it. Being completely new to screenplays, but having seven or eight guru's books read and digested, I decided to share my great screenplay writing wisdom with the world.

I was like you.

I wrote post after post telling everyone all the things they couldn't do and in general, acting like I knew what I was taking about, and right away the pros started asking me: "Who the hell told you that?"

Like you, I argued with them.

The problem was my screenplays completely sucked when I tried to apply THE RULES. And it irritated me because I had read eight books by gurus, after all, and I was great. So WTF!

I read the screenplay that I had written before I read the guru books and the screenplays I wrote afterwards, and I realized that my natural, writer instincts were right and the gurus that I had read were wrong. The pre-guru script was much better.

So instead of arguing with the professionals I started asking them questions and paying attention to their answers. I also started reading a lot of sold spec scripts that clearly broke all of THE RULES.

That's when I started learning how to write screenplays.

[Craig Mazin]

Re: Angle On

My only point is to say that it's up to each individual writer to decide what is best for them.

- Craig tends to use WE SEE for things both the audience and the characters can see.

- In some other thread, some time ago, a different pro said WE SEE can be used for things the audience can see, but the characters don't. *

- And that is what Craig says about ANGLE ON - audience sees, characters don't.

I said I *tend to* use it that way, but sometimes I don't.

I apologize for interrupting your endless point about why something something blah blah blah.

[DavidK]

Re: Angle On

- And that is what Craig says about ANGLE ON - audience sees, characters don't.

Just a point of clarification - that's not what he said. He said he tends to use it in those situations, he didn't say that was what ANGLE ON means, or that that's only when he uses it. It's a subtle but relevant distinction.

To re-cap, it's a conventional, legitimate, device, well understood within the industry, used to draw attention to something particular within a scene. The differences between "we see", "ANGLE ON" and "CLOSE ON/-UP" and similar shot directions are nuanced and I'm confident it would only lead to trouble going into that in any more detail here.

ETA: Craig seems to have replied at exactly the same time. How bizarre that we've said the same thing - a conspiracy no doubt.

[TwoBrad Bradley]

Re: Angle On

... The problem was my screenplays completely sucked when I tried to apply THE RULES. ...

In all those books no one said to build tension, don't suck, don't be matter-of-fact and don't be boring?

[TwoBrad Bradley]

Re: Angle On

I said I *tend to* use it that way, but sometimes I don't.

I apologize for interrupting your endless point about why something something blah blah blah.

You got me, I said "tends". I'm such an idiot.

Maybe every pro will tend to do everything the same way.

[ATB]

Re: Angle On

In all those books no one said to build tension, don't suck, don't be matter-of-fact and don't be boring?

Such easy things to do...

[TwoBrad Bradley]

Re: Angle On

Such easy things to do...

That would be good for the cover of a guru book:

"If you find this screenwriting book too difficult, just do the easy bits."

[StoryWriter]

Re: Angle On

In all those books no one said to build tension, don't suck, don't be matter-of-fact and don't be boring?

I was already a writer (and a reader), I already knew.

Did someone have to tell you all that?

[Centos]

Re: Angle On

In all those books no one said to build tension, don't suck, don't be matter-of-fact and don't be boring?

No, the writers of these books were too busy yammering on about, "don't use "is," "are" and "ing" verbs because that's -- you know -- passive writing." They were too busy telling you not to "direct," and don't use "we see" or adverbs, like "suddenly." They were too busy telling you on what page -- exactly -- your plot points needed to appear. They were too busy trying to reduce screenplay writing into a paint by number formula. Unlike Storywriter, I hardly ever got through most of these guru books. They just seemed too gimmicky. Unfortunately I did try to never use "passive writing." And I did try to teach pros how they shouldn't use "we see." And I did parrot -- by rote -- that pros could get away with "breaking the rules" because they were pros. But, eventually, I grew out of it.

[StoryWriter]

Re: Angle On

"If you find this screenwriting book too difficult, just do the easy bits."

Too difficult? Do YOU find screenwriting books "too difficult"?

All too often, the parts that make sense are painfully obvious.

All to often, the other parts are brainless rules that make writing a good screenplay impossible.

[ATB]

Re: Angle On

That would be good for the cover of a guru book:

"If you find this screenwriting book too difficult, just do the easy bits."

That was actually meant to be sarcastic. As in they are not such easy things to do.